BMW i3 starts near $35,000; NA first deliveries January 2014

Anyone found data regarding usable battery capacity?
Is BMW still going to offer a 600 cc range extender option?
From wiki:
BMW i3 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Supposedly it'll use the yet to be implemented QC / frankenplug. Here's to wondering how long it'll take to build THAT infrastructure. Too bad they didn't choose to use the hundreds of Chademo's already in existence.
I'll say one thing for BMW . . . . I never thought it'd be possible to make a goofier looking car than the Leaf ... but they seemed to have out done my imagination.



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Wow that's hideous...

 

We shall see if this takes off.

 

I think it was more of an issue of Nissan and partners being too greedy with the Chademo rights.

Sounds like the range extender is only for emergency or unexpected traveling use. It might not provide enough juice for full performance, and I heard elsewhere the fuel tank is in the 1 to 3 gallon range. That's partly to be exempt from some type regulation(emission?).

 

I doubt it, but there is a lot of innovation here. I'd love bmw and tesla to cooperate, on a slightly bigger and more powerful 3 size phev, maybe using the bmw 3 cylinder 1.5L engine. Tesla could sell the all electric version with different styling.

We shall see what the real pricing is soon, but this is incredibly inexpensive for carbon fiber. My big question is why use carbon fiber if the styling looks like that. A cf car should be more sexy. It definitely sounds fun to drive.

2015 BMW i3 First Drive - Prototype 2015 BMW i3 First Drive - Road & Track

Battery is 22kwh but bmw does not say what the SOC limits are. I think we con't know that until someone experiments with it. I don't bmw will give a figure so that they can change soc in software.

The REx range extender is 650 cc, and will be available as an option for about $2000. The gas tank goes in front, the ice in back.

The car will have the SAE combo plug (Frankenplug). BMW is working with siemens to get these rolled out in Europe. Chevy is also bringing the SAE combo plug on the spark EV. NRG is planning to roll out both plugs on future quick chargers in the US. Outside of Japan there really is not much changedemo infrastructure. I don't think having the nissan plug would be a selling point for either the spark or i3 plug-ins. Quick charging is about the future, and if you really want it for long trips you need a bigger battery like the tesla has.
BMW i3, the inside story: what it’s made of, how it’s made

 

BMW has been using Carbon Fiber on the roof of the M6 for awhile. It is lighter than steel but as strong. It is expensive.

 

From the SAE article

We don't know the costs to bmw for those roofs, but it appears they have cut costs in half which is impressive The CFRP in the i3 weighs 330lbs, They are saying steel would have weighed 660lbs, and aluminum 495 lbs.

Toyota entered into a licensing agreement with bmw last year to use their CFRP technology. VW group is actively working on it as well.

 

Prius and the Leaf are hideous in my opinion and this car doesn't change anything. What is exciting is the 2700 lb curb weight which is 500 lbs less than the others. 7 second 0-60 and with that weight, 100 miles just might be real. Add the range extender and I may be lining up to buy one if it actually qualifies for the white sticker.

 

So, Toyota will not use their own carbon fiber?

Lexus LFA’s Complex Carbon Fiber Production Process To Be Used For Other Models

 

I think toyota will use what ever is cheaper. If this car really can be sold at this price the BMW stuff is less expensive. I don't think the licensing agreement stops toyota from using there own, but they have a contract to use BMWs. Toyota is definitely working on their own and went in on this licensing agreement. Toyota has also licensed to buy bmw diesel engine technology. BMW on the other side is licensing toyota fuel cell and battery technology. There were a large number of agreements in the last couple of years. BMW stopped working with GM on a number of items and has started working with Toyota and Mercedes. BMW is currently getting batteries from JCI, A123, and Samsung, so they will also likely choose the lowest priced vendor that meets their specifications.

We don't have full details of the agreements.

 

I believe race cars use carbon fiber to lower the weight but keep the strength intact.

Very interested to see it's use expanded. Not sure how easy it is to work with. My guess is a welding will not take well to woven plastic

 

Deserves a visit to a dealership to see, at the least.
As for looks, I think the bronze color is great and the exterior shape usual - nice for hatchbacks, at least in the side view. The grill is dopey, but BMW has to keep it's moniker I suppose.

I really like the idea of the optional 24 kW ICE for $2000.

 

You don't weld carbon fiber you bond it to the other material. Working with it takes more time, but create a better end product. The metal bonded to the carbon fiber can then be welded, or fasteners can be used on the CF directly.

The disadvantages are only cost and repair-ability. When a carbon fiber part breaks it often needs to be replaced instead of repaired. It seems all the car makers are trying to bring the costs down.

I am guessing the $35K is after the $7500 tax credit, but even $42,500 is a very low price for a carbon fiber/aluminum car.

The question is really is it worth it, and will it trickle down. Hoods and suspensions look to be the major cfrp parts that might be added to higher volume cars.

As mentioned Toyota is working on bringing the price down as is bmw. One of the most intriguing developments is VW groups Lamborghini is working with calloway on Forged Carbon Fiber that will greatly reduce manufacturing costs. They are also working with boeing on bodies. Gulf clubs, airplanes, and supercars all coming together to drop costs.

 

When I first saw the spec's for REx, the range extender, I was puzzled by the design. I thought it was for some bizzare european regulation. But no

Page 2 - BMW Cuts Off Toyota, GM and Ford in California - TheStreet

The i3 range extender range was designed with such limited range to qualify for a loophole in the California HOV stickers and qualify as a BEV. I don't know the details of the law, but a larger gas tank would disqualify the i3 with the rest of the PHEVs once the 40,000 quota had been reached.

 

^^ Nice find.
I don't know if CArb was the main impetus for the engineering choice, but it sure didn't hurt.

I imagine Frank Weber, late of GM and now at BMW, was well aware. He was around when the Volt was sent to market and unable to qualify for CA HOV access.

 

Good to know. It is my understanding that the BEV / white carpool-stickers are currently uncapped.
(One of the reasons PHEVs are in such high demand in CA is likely due more to the green sticker than any other factor).
By making the i3 white-sticker-eligible, BMW has cornered the market on CA commuters (and there are many) who have the following priorities, ranked 1st to last:
(1) It's a BMW (would rather be in an 'ugly' bimmer than a Prius, LEAF, Chevy or Ford)
(2) It's actually affordable, despite (1) & (5)
(3) It cuts the commute time dramatically....worth a lot of $$ to many ppl.
(4) It has more range / less range-anxiety than any other BEV at that price point, so far.
(5) It's a PHEV - (yeah, what the heck, save some gas, the environment, stick it to Big Oil and all that)

 

Oops! Isn't this i3 an exact production version of the 2007 Toyota 1x concept at the Tokyo Autoshow?

 

They are similar, but everybody is experimenting with carbon fiber. And Audi had a 250cc rotorary in their A1 e-tron PHV with a 3 to 4gallon gas tank. It made it to fleet testing before being cancelled.

 

You had me look it up

Toyota 1/X Concept - Auto Shows - Car and Driver

Pretty cool. Still I think we would have all applauded it if toyota had made it and brought it out at a price under $50K. The thing that is cool isn't using carbon fiber, its building a car that is not crazy expensive with that CFRP.

IIRC the 1-x idea was derivative of the vw 1 liter car. This eventually became the phev XL1, but vw hasnt been able to bring the price down to the bmw level