Brakes, Gas Pedals, Re-calls, Facts and Myth's

** In this 4.9 million unit recall is the completely bogus 4.6 million unit recall for floormats. This is a recall for morons and idiots who will not follow instructions like the SD Lexus dealer stacking the wrong All Weather mats on top of the OEM mats and not securing them in place

You state (regarding the throttle issue):

Fact, Only a small percentage of toyota's are truely effected by this issue. Those being the only cars with pedals from CTS. A US company in Indiana whom Toyota used to suppelment thier parts supply when thier asian manufacturer could not meet demand.

Actually, for this to be a fact there would need to be some evidence that this is actually the cause. All we have is Toyota saying this is what is causing the problem. I have seen no mention of testing, test results, or anything similar.

In science, this would at best be a hypothesis, and without peer review it wouldn't even be much of that. I have read stories indicating that some believe the problem is strictly software.

Whether it is fact or not, Toyota has decided to "blame" a US supplier who was building parts to a Toyota design that were tested and accepted by Toyota. The response from Toyota is to ship in modified parts made in Japan. The inference is that they believe the problem is caused by inferior American products, and can be cured by superior ones made in Japan.

As a Quality Assurance Engineer for the aerospace industry, I can assure you that we are no longer allowed to "blame" a supplier for a faulty part that reaches our government customers. In today's world, the customer base contractually place the responsibility for the end product on the highest level contrator (for instance, the main designer and assembler for a jet). And rightfully so.

Many articles (and both our government and the Japanese government) indicate that Toyota was informed of these issues (both unintended acceleration and Prius brake faluts) for many years and is now acting because of pressure from regulatory agencies in both countries. We can debate the sincerity of Toyota's concern, but it appears to me the timetable indicates a lack of concern for quite a while before they finally acted.

I have personally felt the pause in braking from activation of the antilock system over minor bumps on dry roads. This has always been at slower speeds. Once it caused great concern because it increased stopping distances enough that I came close to the car in front of me. Yes, I probably should have began my braking further back, since I know the stopping distance of my Prius on bumpy city streets feels longer than any car I have owned (nearly 60 total).

OK, now you're just making stuff up. PLENTY of those NHTSA reports list items like rough pavement, unever surfaces or potholes. And, are you saying you NEVER use your brakes when your wheels are anything other than facing straight forward?!?!? That's insanity. So, when performing a parallel parking manuever you DON'T use your brakes?!? When turning into a parking space alongside a roadway you don't use your brakes? When going down an inclined circular ramp in a parking garage you wouldn't use your brakes???? Turns don't just happen on highway cloverleafs or banked racing roadways.

Toyota press release;
Toyota has pinpointed the issue that could, on rare occasions, cause accelerator pedals in recalled vehicles to stick in a partially open position. The issue involves a friction device in the pedal designed to provide the proper “feel” by adding resistance and making the pedal steady and stable. The device includes a shoe that rubs against an adjoining surface during normal pedal operation. Due to the materials used, wear and environmental conditions, these surfaces may, over time, begin to stick and release instead of operating smoothly. In some cases, friction could increase to a point that the pedal is slow to return to the idle position or, in rare cases, the pedal sticks, leaving the throttle partially open.

Toyota’s solution for current owners is both effective and simple. A precision-cut steel reinforcement bar will be installed into the assembly that will reduce the surface tension between the friction shoe and the adjoining surface. With this reinforcement in place, the excess friction that can cause the pedal to stick is eliminated. The company has confirmed the effectiveness of the newly reinforced pedals through rigorous testing on pedal assemblies that had previously shown a tendency to stick.

Separately from the recall for sticking accelerator pedals, Toyota is in the process of recalling vehicles to address rare instances in which floor mats have trapped the accelerator pedal in certain Toyota and Lexus models (announced November 25, 2009), and is already notifying customers about how it will fix this issue. In the case of vehicles covered by both recalls, it is Toyota’s intention to remedy both at the same time.

Sounds like they know the problem to me. Also, read the rest of Toyota's press releases. You will find that it is related to the CTS pedals. Toyota is not trying to pass the buck and are taking the responsiblity.

I just wanted to point out the fact that other auto markers use CTS pedals and in my opinion those other auto makers should be subject to same checks and tests to assure the safety of thier cars as well.

Ford Motor Company, while hiding behind the media frenzy aimed at Toyota are re tuning the brakes of the Fusion Hybrid and are looking at a China built Ford truck with CTS pedals.

Lucky timing on Ford's part to take care of thier issues in the shadows of the toyota lynch mob.

For myself, the worst case of brake pause has happened when I am de-accellerating at a high rate. The pause in braking is those circumstances is very noticeable and jolting.

But If I am de-accelerating at a slow rate, it is not really a big deal.

I'm not so sure that the part I boldfaced is correct.

Per Toyota knew of sticky-throttle problem late last year - USATODAY.com

I suspect that few (if any) North American built models of the affected vehicles in recall use Denso accelerators. The design of the Denso vs. CTS pedals per Cts Gas Pedal Analyzed | The Truth About Cars is totally different.

I don't think it's a defect or at least one can be detected ahead of time at manufacture time due to the conditions required. In other words, if the pedal doesn't stick while in the factory, that doesn't mean it won't stick later.

It to me seems like a design flaw stemming out of not testing for particular conditions that caused the CTS pedals to stick. It's cited at Toyota Vehicles : Toyota Answers Customer Questions About The Solution For Sticking Accelerator Pedals / Toyota and it's mentioned at Recalls Summary

I don't understand your reason to protect Toyota. You seem like an insider of the issue but you don't even own the 2010 Prius! (According to your profile.) You having nothing to lose what ever the problem are. May be you're trying to protect the resell value of your Prius (According to your profile, you sell Prius).

I bring up the issue to make sure Toyota act on the problem, IOW trying to protect myself and my family. Is there anything wrong with that. As of the incident I mentioned, I have post about it on priuschat.com a few days ago.

On that incident I was only following the traffic, I slow down at the same rate of the car in front of me. But the brake problem turn that into a frightening experience.

Oh yeah, that's right. The unintended acceleration problem takes over on the freeway, like Steve Wozniak reported, too.

This is pure, unadulterated, head-in-the-sand, Kool-Aid drinking, defensive steer manure.

Wrong.

They do not use the SAME pedals from CTS. They use different designs and most of them are not from CTS. In the case of Ford, no product sold anywhere except China has a CTS pedal.

Accelerator Pedal Supplier in Toyota’s Recall Has Many Customers - Wheels Blog - NYTimes.com

I've had it happen over 10mph. In addition, I've had it happen over two rough surfaces in a row for more than 1/2 second, more like 2-3 seconds. It was a 4 ft patch of rough cut up road, then paved for a few feet, then another patch of 3-4 feet. I posted info about the brake issue before the news broke if you look at my history.
Wikipedia for a reliable source...are you kidding

Don't worry, if you can swallow stuff from wiki, you can swallow anything, just take a few more days and use Toyota Prius recall announcement to easy the process.

Here is my story. I am somewhat of a self-proclaimed car buff being in the automotive industry for over 20 years, all of those years involving tuning and performance parts for European performance cars. I have personally never owned a Toyota (Lexus-yes, Toyota no) vehicle prior to my October 2009 purchase of a 2010 Prius.

Recently, friends, family and co-workers will ask me if I have experienced the brake issue that has been so widely publicized regarding the Prius and my answer has been a resounding "no". That is until today.

My car has 6,000 miles and is a package IV. So here is my story...while traveling down a small grade with some small pot holes due to the SOCAL rains, I hit the brakes and....nothing. I know what brake pulse feels like from the ABS, and it was not this sensation. It also was not tire lockup (the ABS never engaged). The best way I can explain the sensation is like hitting black ice or experiencing "slide". Although I was not going fast (about 35 MPH), I was not able to slow down in time to make the turn that was not far in front of me. If there was a car in front of me, I would have hit it without a doubt.

I'm not sure what to think (or say) of the problem or to determine if it was mechanical or ECU programming, but I am here to say...it is real. I am not sure if I can replicate what happened to me today, but it does concern me quite a bit. I have also experienced the brake grabbing sensation others are feeling when backing out of my driveway. It kind of makes me feel like I don't know how to drive (the brakes grab and as a driver when you feel that, you let some pressure off of the pedal), but there doesn't seem to be that middle of the road--as it is either "grab" or "no brake".

I expect to receive a recall notice in the mail and take the car in for servicing soon. In the meantime, I will continue to drive the vehicle and just be a little more sensitive to my surroundings.

I am sharing this information because I would like to know how many others are experiencing this?

Regards

JO

that sounds strange, much different than what i experience. For me, it is braking, bump, then what feels like an uncontrolled 'power boost', and then additional braking with the heart rate up.

Yep, you're right I didn't read all the NHTSA reports. I did read a few but my impression may very well be wrong if you've read more. I'll grant that because further on I mentioned that one of the reason that I don't feel the issue is because in this area the roads are generally in pretty good condition.

Yes in turning I don't ever use my brakes. Pulling into a parking spot certainly because I've gotta stop. But turning into a driveway or onto another roadway, nope, I don't brake in the turn, I coast/brake before the turn. So does my wife. It's how we both learned to drive 40+ yrs ago, a thousand miles apart. We just checked today because I was wondering.

Let me get this straight, you know 100 prius gen 3 owners that each let you drive there cars for multiple hours over rough surfaces to replicate the problem and you couldn't? It sounds like you are quite a skilled tester, and have lots of free time.

I know you have been driving longer than I have been alive, but at least take a look at what bob Wilson has been doing, or the nhtsa.

After all of those hours in cars with different tire wear, and your great testing, I'm sure you know that we all want to hear your opinion reported again, and again. And now I am convinced that toyota doesn't have anything in their software update so I should not get it.

No, let me help DeadPhish to translate what he mean:

He is a Toyota salesman that sale Prius, he had driven more then 100 different 2010 Prius for a very brief period of time, from the parking lot to the delivery area of the Toyota facility he work in (good job on making more then 100 sales). He never feel the brake problem on all of those driving so the problem must be invented by us, the actual owner. We should quiet down so he can keep making his sale, otherwise he won't get to deliver the 200th Prius any time soon.

I hope that clear enough.

I can't help but notice that most of, not all, but most of the complaints, the Toyota Prius bashers, the ones quick to point out that the expreinced Prius owners are brianwashed puppets, etc, are either first time buyers or do not own a Prius at all.

For those first time buyers, The prius is a diffirent animal, it's in a diffirent world. You don't buy a Pepsi and then bitch because it doesn't taste like Coke and you don't buy a Prius and bitch because it doesn't behave like your old conventional car.

For those non Prius owners, why are you here? It's one thing to join a forum to learn, but it's something entirely diffirent to bash something you don't even own. If you don't own one, stop the bitching. You have nothing invested, nothing to lose and nothing to gain. Go away and cry to your Mommies because Billy has ice cream and you didn't get any.:Cry:

I actually have driven at least 100 of these 2010's all over the city and the area as both driver and passenger for a good 2,000 to 4,000 miles in toto. That's what being in charge means. What it's done is give me a much wider range of experience on this new model than any of the complainers herein. Those are simply the facts.

What I'm certain of is that because of this experience I can take anyone's Prius, yours for example, drive it and not feel any of these issues. In the end this dustup will be solved by a reflashing the trolls will return under the bridges and the owners will continue on for 4,5 or 10 more years driving happily. Life moves on.