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Can you push a turned-off Prius forward like you can a manual car in Neutral? Plus, hill-holding!?

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Technical Discussion' started by PurpleGecko, Feb 26, 2012.

  1. fuzzy1

    fuzzy1 Senior Member

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    Re: Can you push a turned-off Prius forward like you can a manual car in Neutral? Plus, hill-holding

    With this use, can one still expect the original clutch to last 20+ years / 250,000+ miles?

    Another case of different countries, different driving culture. There is no such expectation or test here.

    I'm fairly sure that my driver education instructor would have issued demerits for using the clutch to hold on an hill. And considering how sensitive dad was to clutch abuse on his farm equipment, he would have been absolutely pissed at hill holding. But over here, we are expected to camp on the service brake for the duration of the stop.

    By any chance are British brake lights substantially brighter than American brake lights? Do British cars have the Center High Mount Stop Light that ours have had since 1986?
     
  2. qbee42

    qbee42 My other car is a boat

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    Re: Can you push a turned-off Prius forward like you can a manual car in Neutral? Plus, hill-holding

    The issue here may be what is meant by "hold on a hill". On one extreme is holding indefinitely while waiting for a traffic light. On the other is the brief transition from brake to gas. Both are holding on a hill, but the former is a classic case of riding the clutch, which leads to early failure. A quick feather while transitioning to the gas is common and doesn't add much additional wear. As to which method is taught, American driving schools have been all automatic for decades.

    Tom
     
  3. RikM

    RikM Junior Member

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    Re: Can you push a turned-off Prius forward like you can a manual car in Neutral? Plus, hill-holding

    I think UK driving schools tend to be mostly stick. Partly because most cars are stick-shift, but also because the licencing rules allow you to drive an auto, if you learn stick, but not the other way round...
     
  4. fuzzy1

    fuzzy1 Senior Member

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    Re: Can you push a turned-off Prius forward like you can a manual car in Neutral? Plus, hill-holding

    My driver education class, nearly four decades ago, was half stick, half slushbox. Two classes swapped cars mid-course. While there was certainly a transition between holding on hills with the handbrake and getting moving, at no point did Merrill teach us to hold stationary on the hill with just the clutch for even one second. The hold was purely with the handbrake, and a minor rollback was just fine. But any attempt to pull anywhere near rollback range of the car ahead was met with a sharp jolt from the instructor's brake.

    I didn't have Gerald and Jerry for driver ed., but did have them for other courses in the school system. Driving tales frequently leaked into the other classes, including one of classmate with a very serious inability to master the clutch, I don't remember any clutch hill-holding stories.

    Clutch hill-holding puts significant heat into the plate, so I'd feel much more comfortable with the concept if it came from drivers who still make their clutchs last the full life of the car, not from the many folks who expect periodic replacements.

    And I'd also like to hear any comments about the differences in US vs UK brake light brightness or ergonomics, or any other UK practices that limit eye dazzle from other glaring road and roadside lights. The Brit requirement to extinguish their brake lights while stopped seems to be the root cause of this cultural difference. I'm just not seeing that as a dazzling problem here, most certainly not enough reason to move from the all-powerful service brake to weaker systems.
     
  5. qbee42

    qbee42 My other car is a boat

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    Re: Can you push a turned-off Prius forward like you can a manual car in Neutral? Plus, hill-holding

    My driving class was four decades ago, and it was all automatic. My first driving experience was on a manual, but that was because my dad took me out driving on the back roads in our old Datsun 510 station wagon.

    The handbrake method of hill holding has never been popular in the US. Partially this is because many US cars do not have hand brakes. Instead, many US cars have foot operated parking brakes, operated by the left foot. Since your left foot can't hold the clutch and release the foot parking brake at the same time, the parking brake method doesn't work.

    Clutches are designed to slip, which is why we have clutches. If slip wasn't necessary we would just have gears. Done properly, the short transition from brake to gas is no harder on the clutch than an ordinary start. If done poorly, well, that's a different story. There are plenty of ways to abuse an automobile.

    Tom
     
  6. RikM

    RikM Junior Member

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    Re: Can you push a turned-off Prius forward like you can a manual car in Neutral? Plus, hill-holding

    My instructor (a mere 23 years ago) emphasized that low speed manouvering was best controlled with the clutch. He coached finding the slipping point and the biting point and how to speed up and slow down with a constant throttle and no brake...

    Ah, cultural differences. Like the way in the UK the age of consent is lower than the age you have to be before you can drive a car... :)
     
  7. Agape

    Agape Member

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    Re: Can you push a turned-off Prius forward like you can a manual car in Neutral? Plus, hill-holding

    Congrats on your new purchase,

    it's so coincidental that you asking about this while my prius has been pushed forward by recovery truck (flat bed + wire + electric engine to pull wire= damage).

    enjoy your new ride

    Best of luck
     
  8. richard schumacher

    richard schumacher shortbus driver

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    Re: Can you push a turned-off Prius forward like you can a manual car in Neutral? Plus, hill-holding

    Blinding glare, from brake lights? Good lord. What will Britain do as global warming causes the clouds to roll back, revealing the awful unfiltered light of the Sun? My GF enjoyed the mention of horses, and asks whether those are the current regs, or are they from 1926.

    "Blinded By The Brake Lights": now I have a title for my auto-biography.
     
  9. uart

    uart Senior Member

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    Re: Can you push a turned-off Prius forward like you can a manual car in Neutral? Plus, hill-holding

    In stationary queues of traffic, drivers should..... Should, it sounds more like a suggestion than a law to me. Do you know anyone who has ever actually been "done" for this?
     
  10. PurpleGecko

    PurpleGecko Member

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    Re: Can you push a turned-off Prius forward like you can a manual car in Neutral? Plus, hill-holding

    Regarding brake lights, I doubt it. It is a courtesy to other road users. I expect people have been pulled over for having fog lights on unnecessarily though.

    I don't think the brake light issue is the cause of people using handbrakes routinely on hills. I think that it is because almost all cars in the UK are manual. Because we have a nationwide standardised driving test, it makes sense to standardise a method of driving. In a manual the best way to hold a car on a hill is to use the handbrake and go out of gear. This probably didn't become standardised in America a) because the cars are mostly automatic and b) because even manuals didn't necessarily have a hand brake.

    I agree that the Highway Code might seem draconian but it (along with the nationwide driving test) means the UK enjoys some of the safest roads in the world.
     
  11. qbee42

    qbee42 My other car is a boat

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    Re: Can you push a turned-off Prius forward like you can a manual car in Neutral? Plus, hill-holding

    Which is especially amazing since they all drive on the wrong side.

    :p

    Tom
     
  12. uart

    uart Senior Member

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    Re: Can you push a turned-off Prius forward like you can a manual car in Neutral? Plus, hill-holding

    Most of Australia's highway codes (as with most other laws, practices and customs) were inherited directly from the UK. Over time of course some things have changed, but honestly I can't remember this brake light thing ever being part of the code here. I've also got to say that I've never noticed a problem or personally felt "dazzled" by other peoples brake lights.

    When I learnt to drive, manuals where definitely the most common transmissions here in Australia too. Now days however I think automatics are starting to predominate here as well.

    Anyway, the real issue of this thread is basically the effectiveness of the park brake, particularly in the reverse direction. It's true, the park brake on the Prius is quite effective in the forward direction and not so effective in the reverse direction. You have to apply it very firmly and it might move a half to one inch back as it takes up the load after you release the regular foot brake.

    This situation is not really unique to the Prius. It has nothing to do with it being a Hybrid or even it being an automatic. It's simply an issue of the park brake design.
     
  13. RikM

    RikM Junior Member

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    Re: Can you push a turned-off Prius forward like you can a manual car in Neutral? Plus, hill-holding

    Ah no. You've got your opposites confused...
    It's not "wrong", it's "left"
    :)
     
  14. Britprius

    Britprius Senior Member

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    Re: Can you push a turned-off Prius forward like you can a manual car in Neutral? Plus, hill-holding

    Two points that have not been covered, the OP's car is a 2007 so does not have the hill start assist.
    The second point that will seem very strange to people from countries other than the UK is that in law the hand brake is not a parking brake, but an emergency brake
    " a secondary means of stopping the vehicle". In our yearly MOT (vehicle safety check) the emergency brake (hand brake to most people) is not tested to see if it can hold the vehicle on a given incline it is tested to see how much braking effort it has on the moving wheels, a very different test. It may be that the brake will hold on the steepest of hills, but it may still fail the rolling test.