1. Attachments are working again! Check out this thread for more details and to report any other bugs.

Cancelled - DOE Adv Tech Vehicle Mfr Loan Program

Discussion in 'Prius, Hybrid, EV and Alt-Fuel News' started by cycledrum, Mar 23, 2013.

  1. cycledrum

    cycledrum PSOCSOASP

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2008
    8,245
    1,202
    0
    Location:
    NorCal
    Vehicle:
    Other Non-Hybrid
    Model:
    N/A
    "The U.S. Department of Energy is no longer evaluating applications for the remaining $16.6 billion in low-interest loans—from a $25 billion program established to support advanced technology vehicles. Pending applications totally more than $1 billion were deemed either “not substantially complete” or not ready to move forward for a range of reasons, according to the D.O.E.
    The cessation of loan application reviews was reported by the U.S. Government Accountability Office to the House and Senate sub-committees on energy and water development on March 15, 2013—after a nine-month review. The report spells the end of the program that was once considered vital to the future of electric cars and plug-in hybrids.
    In September 2008, former President Bush established the $25 billion program of low-cost loans to help automakers retool plants to build more advanced technology vehicles, dubbed the Advanced Technology Vehicles Manufacturing Loan Program."
    DOE Puts Brakes on Alternative Vehicle Loans | PluginCars.com
     
  2. austingreen

    austingreen Senior Member

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2009
    13,525
    4,057
    0
    Location:
    Austin, TX, USA
    Vehicle:
    2018 Tesla Model 3
    Model:
    N/A
    The program seemed like a good idea at the time but was mismanaged. I'm glad to see this bad remnant of the past go. In reality the new cafe standards and the plug-in subsidies, which should be perhaps given at time of purchase, will do much more to reduce oil consumption than the loan program.

    The loans given to tesla and fisker seemed more like venture capital with strings attached than loans to reduce the cost of alternative fuel vehicles. I hope hope the DOE does cancel the rest of the fisker loan that is in default. The strings, employment in the plant in delaware, appear to be what is stopping a purchase of the company.
     
  3. cycledrum

    cycledrum PSOCSOASP

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2008
    8,245
    1,202
    0
    Location:
    NorCal
    Vehicle:
    Other Non-Hybrid
    Model:
    N/A
    Plug in cars had an article about Fisker saying the Chinese companies discovered Fisker doesn't actually own much of the intellectual property for the Karma, that it is mostly off the shelf supplier's parts put into a car. Recent article.
     
  4. austingreen

    austingreen Senior Member

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2009
    13,525
    4,057
    0
    Location:
    Austin, TX, USA
    Vehicle:
    2018 Tesla Model 3
    Model:
    N/A
    I thought though according to WSJ fisker left because of strings attached to the loan guarantees, and the company wanted to tap more money from the loans. These same loan guaranties about Delaware jobs are what spooked the Chinese.

    This was the latest that came up on the news google
    Chinese firms reportedly losing interest in US taxpayer-backed Fisker, citing loan terms | Fox News

    Let's face it there is not much intelectual property when it comes to the EV portion of the car. Most of these patents are already in the public domain. There is ip in the form of batteries and managing SOC, but I would guess A123 owns that, which is now owned by the chinese. It doesn't sound like the ice/generator works all that well, so I doubt there is valuable ip there.
     
  5. cycledrum

    cycledrum PSOCSOASP

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2008
    8,245
    1,202
    0
    Location:
    NorCal
    Vehicle:
    Other Non-Hybrid
    Model:
    N/A
    "...Neither Geely nor Dongfeng, the two Chinese automakers who expressed an interest in buying Fisker, are interested now.
    What was behind the loss of interest? Friends in the automotive industry in China say it was that Fisker lacks ownership of the technology used to power the Karma plug-in hybrid and other future cars."

    Why Chinese Companies Backed Away from Buying Fisker Automotive | PluginCars.com

    Didn't Fisker Auto get a bunch of money, like 1/2 billion from the DOE loan program?
     
  6. austingreen

    austingreen Senior Member

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2009
    13,525
    4,057
    0
    Location:
    Austin, TX, USA
    Vehicle:
    2018 Tesla Model 3
    Model:
    N/A
    That is quite a different take then WSJ and Forbes had. I wonder who those friends in the Chinese auto industry are.


    Its hard for me to believe Geely and Dongfeng didn't know they had IP as good or better for EV drivetrains. What they don't have is a designed high end car that may work in the Chinese market. If they can buy it cheaply enough, I don't doubt that they would be able to sell some in there home market, and the atlantic even more. But further on there is this

    That risk as well as having to try to manufacture in an old beat up gm plant in delaware - part of the conditions of taking more DOE money, could easily sink the deal.

    One thing that makes Fisker look worse is they blocked JCI from buying A123, and that sent it to a chinese company that now China Inc owns that intellectual property that is part of the karma.
     
    cycledrum likes this.