Cash is Dead

Discussion in 'Fred's House of Pancakes' started by airportkid, Mar 18, 2012.

  1. airportkid

    airportkid Will Fly For Food

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2005
    2,165
    538
    San Francisco Bay Area CA
    Vehicle:
    2005 Prius
    Well, dying, anyway.

    In Sweden, Cash Is King No More

    I didn't know cash was only 7% of the US economy; I'd've guessed about 33%. I'm glad it's only 7%; that will bring its end that much sooner.

    There are of course many pros and cons to cash vs cashless. Some crimes are made impossible by lack of cash but cybercrimes replace them. Cash is anonymous, which can be good or bad; cybercash, although not presently anonymous, can be made so.

    It took me awhile to realize that, theoretically, if time & space weren't restrictive, you'd only need a single dollar bill to transact every monetary exchange in an economy, doing them nanoseconds apart one after the other. Cyber cash removes those restrictions and you don't even need one physical dollar.

    One good thing about cybercash - it devastates the antique fantasy of "gold" based economy as practical. Gold had one and only one raison d'etre: it was supposed to prevent governments from printing endless cash. We all see how well that worked.

    The restraints on governments these days come from whence they should: global economic dynamics. Not perfect (and never will be), but more robust than gold ever was.

    Wealth was never the banknotes themselves, nor the bullion in the vaults. Wealth was their purchasing power; a number. Cybercash just reduces everything to that number, and gets rid of a nuisance physical token that hinders the easy flow of commerce.

    The next great hurdle is getting rid of the anarchy of national currency (the Euro being the first great step out of that anachronstic boat anchor to global commerce). But that'll take time because the equally antique baggage of patriotism and nationalism will retard its progress.

    Which is OK, actually. If we move too fast the hobgoblins of chicanery will get their hands in and steal us blind.

    But it's a good trend.
     
  2. Teddy76

    Teddy76 Junior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2012
    36
    4
    Denmark
    Vehicle:
    2008 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    Except a very few occurences, I dropped cash use years ago. It's just so much easier using the CC everywhere.
     
  3. hyo silver

    hyo silver Awaaaaay

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2005
    15,167
    1,411
    off into the sunset
    Vehicle:
    2004 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    Does that 7% include the underground economy? The use of cash may be on the decline amongst the elite, but I have serious doubts that it's going away anytime soon. The fact that it's anonymous and untraceable will keep it the primary means of trade for a great number of people. Not all them upstanding members of the community, necessarily......
     
    1 person likes this.
  4. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2006
    5,021
    1,021
    eastern Pennsylvania
    Vehicle:
    Other Non-Hybrid
    Model:
    N/A
    They have the bitcoin.
    [ame=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bitcoin]Bitcoin - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]

    It's supposedly popular for anonymous transactions on the web.
     
  5. daniel

    daniel Cat Lovers Against the Bomb

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2004
    14,399
    1,496
    Spokane, WA
    Vehicle:
    2004 Prius
    True wealth is not in money of any form. True wealth is in stuff. Money can be exchanged for stuff, but then it's not the money itself, but its potential to buy stuff.

    Good point!

    Fascinating! Thanks for posting that link. Personally, I don't think I'd trust bitcoin. It's basically just another kind of currency. All currency has only the value that people place in it, as determined by a market. It sounds as though bitcoin was very well thought-out, and well implemented, with lots of safeguards. But it is still accepted (I'm sure) at very limited places, and if they ever stop accepting it, its value could plummet. The dollar is accepted throughout the world and by all U.S. businesses. How many places can you spend bitcoins? Then there's the unfairness that early miners were able to accumulate lots of bitcoin, and later arrivals have a much harder time, or else must buy them with conventional money.

    It sounds to me like something for the anti-government wackos.

    Reminds me of the guy I knew who refused to work unless he was paid in silver bullion. It meant he could only work for someone willing to go to the coin shop to buy bullion, and could only shop where they'd accept his bullion, which they'd then have to sell back to the coin shop, which profited on both the sale and the re-purchase.

    Anyway, it's a fascinating idea, but I think I'll stick with dollars.

    And yes, I, too, have largely shifted to plastic, though I use currency for some things, especially but not exclusively while travelling.
     
  6. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

    Joined:
    May 11, 2005
    27,986
    4,826
    boston
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Plug-in Base
    i like cash.
     
    1 person likes this.
  7. FL_Prius_Driver

    FL_Prius_Driver Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2007
    3,767
    1,038
    Tampa Bay
    Vehicle:
    2001 Prius
    That last 7% is mighty important. Once cash becomes 100% electronic, it then provides the government 100% access to all your economic information. The republicans want to know everyone's finances since that allows them to find terrorists. The democrats want to know everyone's finances since that allows ensuring the rich are properly paying the poor and which category you are in.

    You get the point if you have half a brain - R or D or Independent or Don't Care. The loss of the physical part is not to bothersome. The ability to fully know your private business by the government is really, really worrisome......because the government is going to need LOTS of money to fund all the programs that we cannot afford.
     
  8. hyo silver

    hyo silver Awaaaaay

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2005
    15,167
    1,411
    off into the sunset
    Vehicle:
    2004 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    We should all be uncomfortable with the amount of personal information we trail behind us as we shop. I'm not so sure it's the government that's the threat - it's the private sector collecting the information. The taxman knows your annual income and deductions, but not the details of when and where you shop, and what you've purchased.
     
  9. spiderman

    spiderman wretched

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2009
    7,462
    1,433
    Alaska
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    II
    I like cash pie.
     
  10. qbee42

    qbee42 My other car is a boat

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2006
    18,044
    2,967
    Northern Michigan
    Vehicle:
    2006 Prius
    You really should retire those 1970's shorts.

    :eek:

    Tom
     
    1 person likes this.
  11. gramps

    gramps New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2009
    153
    22
    San Diego
    Vehicle:
    2009 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    What you talking about Willis?
     
  12. FL_Prius_Driver

    FL_Prius_Driver Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2007
    3,767
    1,038
    Tampa Bay
    Vehicle:
    2001 Prius
    The private sector has a head start, but the government can do the real damage over the long run. Once the government realizes it can know the details of when and where you shop, and what you have purchased........


    (If they appointed themselves the right to track what you have read via your library cards, do you really think that they would not look at more revealing data?)
     
  13. ItsNotAboutTheMoney

    ItsNotAboutTheMoney EditProfOptInfoCustomUser Title

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2009
    2,283
    444
    Maine
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    II
    Cash can die when the true cost of cash is greater than the cost of electronic transactions.

    The current situation is sick since laws prevent a customer and trader from agreeing the mutually best option.
     
  14. DavidA

    DavidA Prius owner since July 2009

    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2009
    665
    248
    Chicago western burbs
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    V
    Once they outlaw cash, then only outlaws will have cash.
    .
    .
    .
    .
    .
    OK, somehow that sounded better when I first typed it. :rolleyes:
     
  15. fuzzy1

    fuzzy1 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2009
    7,745
    2,037
    Western Washington
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius
    Model:
    Three
    The later detail is sent to the Immigration & Customs Enforcement agents at the border, not to the taxman. Your government may not know what my household bought while in your country, but my government seems to be clued in surprisingly well.
     
  16. Politburo

    Politburo Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2009
    971
    207
    Vehicle:
    2009 Prius
    The same law that gives the government the ability to look at library borrowing also covers financial/business records. And even aside from the PATRIOT Act there are still subpoenas and good old fashioned tails.
     
  17. Southern Dad

    Southern Dad Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2011
    341
    201
    Monroe, GA
    Vehicle:
    2011 Prius
    Model:
    Three
    I also very rarely use cash any more. I love being able to transfer money to individuals via the Chase app on my iPhone. I pay all my bills online and just really don't see a need for cash. Even my 9-year-old daughter's lunch money is online.

    Do I care if the government knows that I purchased a gallon of milk at Kroger today? Not really.
     
  18. FL_Prius_Driver

    FL_Prius_Driver Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2007
    3,767
    1,038
    Tampa Bay
    Vehicle:
    2001 Prius
    Which reflects on my original comment. While dealing with cash, these records basically dead end on the ledger entry. When dealing entirely electronically, the amount of personnel information digested by the government can go much farther. I have no problem with the PROPER use of law enforcement authority, but these future capabilities will provide severe temptations for many to abuse this financial tracking possibilities.
     
  19. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

    Joined:
    May 11, 2005
    27,986
    4,826
    boston
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Plug-in Base
    we have a saying in our business. cash is king. it was true 30 years ago, and it's true today.
     
    1 person likes this.
  20. dustoff003

    dustoff003 Blizzard Brigade #003

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2010
    1,351
    327
    Waianae, HI (Oahu)
    Vehicle:
    2011 Prius
    Model:
    Five
    There are many places here in the Islands that are cash only. Usually it is smaller restaurants and mom and pop shops. Then there are some stalls at the swap meet with mobile card readers and they take cash and plastic. I use both just depending on where I am going. I like to have a wad of cash in my hand every now and again.


    Posted from my iPhone via the Tapatalk app.