China bans airlines from paying eu carbon tax

Discussion in 'Environmental Discussion' started by austingreen, Feb 5, 2012.

  1. austingreen

    austingreen Senior Member

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    China bans its airlines from paying EU carbon tax - The Washington Post

     
  2. hill

    hill High Fiber Member

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    It might be a bonanza for JAL. If the EU won't back down, Chinese fliers may end up having to take puddle jumpers in to Japan before hopping over the polar route.
     
  3. SageBrush

    SageBrush Senior Member

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    Let the Carbon wars begin.
     
  4. wjtracy

    wjtracy Senior Member

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    ...the regular folk in EU sometimes do not support all the EU directives (find them silly sometimes) so I wonder how firm EU will be.
     
  5. RobH

    RobH Senior Member

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    I can't help but to notice the parallel between the Chinese attitude and Steve Job's reality distortion field. Both involve enforcing their own views over a different reality. Both have had their successes.
     
  6. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

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    What is the complete list of airlines and other entities opposed to paying this tax? Both the US Dept of Transportation and the ICAO have been mentioned, but haven't found a good (er reliable) source.

    It would seem that ICAO is the big dog in the room. They run international commercial air travel in all its aspects.
     
  7. FL_Prius_Driver

    FL_Prius_Driver Senior Member

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    Are the EU taxes strictly a GHG behavior modification economic policy or just a newly hatched EU income source, properly greenwashed?
     
  8. mojo

    mojo Senior Member

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    Good question,that Im not addressing .
    In California ,I read that Jerry Brown is planning to use half of the carbon credit income to run the state.Thats(from memory)$500 million in a few years then $3-5 billion annually thereafter.
    He wont actually take the money, but some State programs will be paid for by the credits.
     
  9. mojo

    mojo Senior Member

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    If the EU gets its Carbon tax from airlines,whats to stop California from charging airlines?
    Im sure Jerry Brown is watching these events very closely.
    CO2 is the governments dream.
    Constituents begging to be taxed to save the planet.
    Even if CO2 were a problem, Cap and Trade would do next to nothing to solve it.
    Im a leftist and an environmentalist and I think its obvious the CO2 scare is a massive ripoff scheme.
     
  10. austingreen

    austingreen Senior Member

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    I would not call it greenwashing. Its a strange system to try to force interantional business to pay for EUs carbon tax. This includes getting china to pay a european tax for goods that are made in china but air
    shipped to europe.

    Its a fairly dangerous game, as its likely that china can then retailiate. This may cause a great deal of economic hardship in the EU. At the same time these countries may be looking to china or the US to be bailed out. Some politicians in california may want to bail out the EU, but I'm sure the chinese will have no stomach for it, if the same countries are trying to unfairly tax the chinese.

    If the countries agree, there should not be a problem. It just can not work if the EU tries to impose its will in a ham handed way.

    California can not simply impose a carbon tax on the airlines without geting into the commerce clause of the constitution.
     
  11. mojo

    mojo Senior Member

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    Countries?I gather we cant tax Nevada from sending a plane or bus or car here?
     
  12. austingreen

    austingreen Senior Member

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    I was talking about EU versus China, Russia, and US on the airplane cap and trade scheme.

    California can do landing fees etc, but they can not do ghg based fees from other states without federal agreement. Texas did a scheme where flights were taxed more if the plane stopped in 1 texas city versus 2, which amounted to favoritism to texas hubbed airlines like american and continental.
     
  13. wjtracy

    wjtracy Senior Member

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    ....as I recall cap and trade is what gov't likes because they set up new jobs and staff and politics to implement. Industry sometimes prefers straight tax has less politics/infrastructure to collect.
     
  14. austingreen

    austingreen Senior Member

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    Cap and trade worked well for SO2 and was less expensive and most likely more effective than a tax. Industry liked it. Clinton tried a btu tax, which failed miserably. There was much politics and many loopholes. He now favors cap and trade.

    The problem with cap and trade legislation is the giving away of credits and setting of caps which involved a great deal of politics in both the eu scheme and the bill that was proposed by the house. A revenue neutral tax/cap trade that avoided loopholes would be preferable. This could amount to an oil tax, but cap and trade of ghg for electricity production. The cap and trade proposed for the us grandfathered in much of the coal with free credits which angered both environmentalists and petroleum interests. In europe high caps have meant improvements in some countries have allowed others to simply increase their pollution. There has also been criminal activity surrounding selling of the the caps.
     
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