1. Offline

    seangerner New Member

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    Location:
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    Hey all,

    Before you read this story and decide to spam me keep in mind that I keep my tire pressure optimal, I don't drive like an idiot, I get ALL necessary maintence done when needed, etc.

    I have a 2006 HCH. The car is a joke and so is Honda corporate. I WOULD HIGHLY RECOMMEND NOT PURCHASING ONE BECAUSE THE ADDED COST OF THE CAR WILL DEFINITELY NOT PAY YOU BACK IN GAS MILEAGE OVER A 5YEAR TIME PERIOD OR OVER A LIFETIME FOR THAT MATTER.

    Thought I would post on here a quick synopsis of my Honda story. For the first 50,000 miles my car got roughly 42-45mpg on average. Then over a 2-3 week time period it drastically decreased and is only getting 32-34mpg on average.

    1. I took my car to local dealership and told there was not a problem. I thought to myself ok it's not too bad yet I will just keep an eye on it. Of course it got worse, so...

    2. Take my car back to dealership. They tell me they duplicated my issue. Called Honda tech line who told them they were working on a car with almost the same issue. Tech line told them they replaced the battery and loaded new software into the car but neither one fixed the problem. The dealership's resolution was to WAIT for a fix? Hmmm.

    3. Called honda corporate. Was told to get a "second opinion" so I took my car to the only other dealership in Tucson, AZ (Dobbs Honda) who told me they also duplicated my problem, called Honda tech line, Tech line faxed them a Questionnaire surrounding my problem that I needed to fill out so they could fax back to them and then I needed to wait.

    4. Called Honda corporate back, was asssigned a case manager who I spoke with about my IMA issues and he said he would talk to the dealerships and tech line then get back to me within 1 week. He called me back and told me my car was "operating within normal circumstances" and that there was nothing wrong with it. Heat can cause it to start its safety feature which automatically turns itself off so it doesnt get damaged, etc. He also told me to read page 76 (I think that's the page) of my manual.

    5. I stayed in contact with him (Morris is his name, my case manager) over several months, continued calling and expressing my dissatisfaction. Finally today he called me back again and I had a rather lengthy discussion with him. Told him I wanted either my car replaced or a $4000 credit applied to the remainder of my loan because if I wanted Civic EX gas mileage then I would have purchased a Civic EX for $4000 less than a Hybrid. He basically told me to screw myself, wouldn't give me his supervisor's name and extension, etc, etc, etc. He and Honda corporate are a joke.

    I told him I was going to no longer purchase Honda products, no longer refer people to Honda, no longer get my 2 Honda's serviced at Honda dealerships, file a NHTSA safety complaint, file a BBB complaint because I was blatantly lied to regarding Honda tech line's MYTH car that EVERYONE is told they have worked on, consistently send letters to corporate, my local dealership, and finally contact KGUN 9 News on your side here in Tucson, AZ to try and get my story aired.

    Thanks for listening to my story,
    Sean
    Tucson, AZ


    P.S. - This is a shortened version of my story, but if there are others out there who have a defective IMA motor/battery and have gotten similar treatment from Honda corporate and local dealerships I would highly suggest doing some of your own research. There are plenty of consumers out there being given the runaround from Honda just like I have. Multiple people have posted safety complaints with NHTSA. You can go to their website and check for yourself.

    Here are a couple of complaint id #'s: 10241683 and 10254417
  2. Offline

    Godiva AmeriKan Citizen

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    Be sure you actually follow through.

    And you might consider getting rid of that Honda and buying a Prius.
  3. Offline

    dominicsavio New Member

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    Definately follow through. You might be lucky and find someone in Honda who would be as nice as you can imagine...

    Its also a good idea to see if a similar forum exists for Honda/Hybrid etc so you can publicize this issue. Its definately something consumers need to be aware of...
  4. Offline

    dogfriend Human - Animal Hybrid

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    Not a spam or a flame but I am curious about two things:

    1. Did anyone at the dealer or Honda corporate ever explain the technical cause of the lower mpg? Is the battery capacity lower than before or is there a different cause?

    2. What is the basis of the safety complaint to NHTSA? Does the car suddenly lose power or become otherwise unsafe to drive?
  5. Offline

    KK6PD _ . _ . / _ _ . _

    Member Since:
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    spamspamspam...oh its the Monty Python thing again, blast it....

    Actually you seem t have a valid complaint. If you have boxes of paperwork to back your story, can prove you met all the maintenance requirements, you might have a good legal case. I would hope it does not come to that but sometimes a call from a lawyer can actually nudge the other party in line!

    Any response from the HCH Chat areas, I would assume that you have visited your brothers and sisters there, what did they say?

    I wish you luck, to steal a line from my one of my favorite movies ...

    " Blade Runner. ...... LEON : I tell you, nothing is worse than having an itch you can never scratch. ..."

    But when you get it worked out its going to feel good

    73 de Pat KK6PD
  6. Offline

    snead_c Jam Ma's Car

    Member Since:
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    Sean, keep the faith and keep up your documentation. Honestly and accurately publicizing your plight is a good move. Remember you're ahead of the game with your previous mpg and while current is lower it's still better than most.
    It might be time to get a new paint job...Lemon Yellow then check out the 2010 Prius !
  7. Offline
    • Moderator

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North

    Member Since:
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    Check out any Honda sites and see if anyone has a similar issue with the battery. You can try GreenHybrid.com. Sorry about your situation.
  8. Offline

    hobbit Senior Member

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    Can you point us to the Honda forum where you posted the same
    rant with the word "Prius" simply substituted in?
    .
    _H*
  9. Offline

    RobH Senior Member

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    The symptoms sound like the battery system is defective. The agency/corporate is either incapable of diagnosing the problem, or stiffing you because a battery replacement would be expensive.

    I don't know about the Honda, but the Prius has a 100,000 mile (150,000 in California) warranty on the battery. Sounds like a warranty issue to me. At least in California, the warranty is not an optional item; it is required by law.

    Honda is generally a very responsible car company. If you can clarify the issues and get them presented to the right people, I would expect them to repair the car. So far you're getting lower level trash from people who don't want to get stuck with a big ticket repair. Try to contain your venom, and just present the facts in a firm manner to more people in the Honda corporate tree. If the battery warranty is like the Prius (as I would expect), then you have a legal case against them.
  10. Offline

    cycledrum PSOCSOASP

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    2011 Prius
    Model:
    Three
    Oooh, that's not fun at all.

    I hope you get everything documented, then get the help and repairs you need.
  11. Offline

    KAR IDEA 100K and continuing...

    Member Since:
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    Could have just been a lemon, sounds like an isolated incident. :(
  12. Offline

    donee New Member

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    Model:
    III
    Hi Seeng...,

    When Problems like this occur in Gen 1 Prius its usually a motor winding that is partially, or fully shorted. Thus the over-temp of the inverter and motor as the inverter switches the battery into a dead short located in the motor, for that cycle of the motor. That is, 1/3 of the inverter operation is into a dead short. That is why the car seems to work, but not quite.

    Due to the simplicity of the IMA system, I would expect the repair to be similar to a clutch job in cost and complexity.

    Its probably not wise to continue to operate the car as it is, as eventually the inverter will fail under such abuse. The new battery wont like it either.
  13. Offline

    MSantos EcoAccelerometry

    Member Since:
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    It is pretty sad when these things happen and absolutely no car is free from claims of this sort.
    What also saddens me is that this section of the PriusChat forum often becomes a platform for some PC members to bash other hybrid vehicles. This is very sad. This form of bashing is often ill informed and hardly helpful to the community. If being helpful is not the purpose of these forum sections then what is their purpose? A trap for subsequent target practice ?:(

    C'mon folks we can all do better than this.

    Anyway, one thing I call tell you is that folks like Sean embark on Blitz campaign when they are very displeased and they will denigrate a product and its manufacturer without really providing all the details of what truly happened.
    Judging from the battery of 1 time posts that this person has made on various web sites his only mission is clearly vindictive and somewhat lacking on full disclosure?

    Now, just in case he's actually looking for a way out, I will provide a few of the most common clues and tips as to why his fuel economy may be suffering.


    • Use of the wrong engine oil will decimate the fuel economy by at least 10 MPG. 0W20 is the only recommended oil but some shops may elect to use an alternate grade when they do not have the genuine Honda 0W20 oil. This still happens way too often and will continue that way until all dealers stock up on proper oil and training.
    • A problem with a high drain component, such as the power steering or the hybrid AC scroll compressor will also account for massive amounts of FE loss.
    • A poorly performing 12V battery will also produce measurably lower FE results.
    • Was the vehicle ever involved in an accident and subsequent rebuild?
    • Different tires? Wrong tires can account for a good loss in FE up to 10 MPG depending on actual inflation levels vs its sidewall rated pressure.
    • A malfunctioning relay in the climate control system or an MICU discrepancy will cause noticeable drops in FE as well.
    • Control arm issue affecting 2006 and 2007 vehicles can cause a drop in FE as well. A TSB is out for this issue.
    • And finally, bad dealers. Honda has them and Toyota has them as well. Getting a second opinion from an alternate dealer often reveals differences in the technical training levels or even absence of these.

    Donee:
    This IMA simplicity you refer to is very misleading and not representative of the complexity involved with the servicing of the stator/motor assembly and its adjacent systems. Trust me it is far, far more complex, delicate and expensive than a clutch job.

    ;)


    Cheers;

    MSantos
  14. Offline

    daniel Cat Lovers Against the Bomb

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    Let's see, millions of satisfied Honda owners, and we're supposed to never ever buy one because you got a lemon? Honda probably produces fewer lemons than any other company. I do wish you the best, and urge you, as others have above, to keep your documentation and pursue this. But it says nothing about Honda customer service generally, which is one of the best in the industry, or about the HCH in particular, which is one of the most reliable of cars, even if you did get a lemon.

    That said, I obviously feel the Prius is the better car. It had to be, to entice me away from Honda, which gave me princely service the entire 15 years I drove my Honda Civic.
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    Per New Member

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    I'm just highly sceptical of this kind of rant. The only indication was a significant loss of mileage? How about charge/ assist indicators? Any other indication?
    When someone posts one post and doesn't come back, I don't think I can take much stock in the alleged story!
  16. Offline

    patsparks An Aussie perspective

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    I wouldn't have bought a Honda in the first place.
    I have heard lots of good things about the HCH so this is one out of the box, pity.
  17. Offline

    DaveinOlyWA 3rd Time was Solariffic!!

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    thanks for the info Sean. real sorry to hear about the issues you are having. definitely keep this thread updated as you see progress (or more frustration)

    hope everything ends up well
  18. Offline

    daniel Cat Lovers Against the Bomb

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    He only ever posted once, in order to dis Honda. I don't think he'll be posting any updates. We don't even know if he's for real, or a Detroit shill. My experience as a Honda owner was 100% positive. If the Prius had not been years ahead of anything else on the road I'd never have left Honda.
  19. Offline

    adric22 Ev and Hybrid Enthusiast

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    Okay, well here is my two cents on the matter.

    First of all, my best friend is a master technician at a Toyota dealership. I've heard plenty of horror stories from him. I'll give you a good example. Recently, a lady bought a Prius and she paid tons of extra money for all the extended warranties and maintenance plans, etc.. He said she ended up paying the dealership something around $45,000 for it.

    Well, the motor that changes the A/C vents to blow different directions burned out. It makes a terrible noise whenever trying to change to defrost, or the middle or lower vents and never changes. Well, my friend told me that Toyota pays very very poorly for labor for the technicians. In this case, the amount of time it would take to tear the dash apart and replace this part was unsurmountable. Probably an all-day job. But Toyota will only pay like $15 for a job like this on their books. So none of the technicians at the dealership wanted to do it. Eventually the boss just told her they weren't going to cover it, despite the fact it was under warranty and the lady bought all those extended warranties (which are usually worthless anyway) The lady left irate, and in tears. My friend says that if she goes to another dealership, she'll probably get the same treatment. In this case, it is Toyota who is really at fault more than the dealership. he says this type of this is very common. I could tell you tons of stories he's told me.

    Another common issue they have which sounds similar to this poster, is that people bring Prius' into the dealership all the time and the only complaint is that the gas mileage is bad. He says they get this at least once a week. And people want their money back because they aren't getting the mileage that the car claims to get. Generally speaking, it is the driver's fault. What usually winds up happening is that after several fights between the customer and the boss, my friend will have to fill the car up with gas, drive it around town (driving it properly) until they use about half the gas up, then show the customer that it got the correct gas mileage. Of course, Toyota doesn't pay for this either, so my friend wastes half his day doing this without getting paid for it. So far, they've never come across a complaint that ended up being something wrong with the car causing bad mileage. So, even if there is something legitimately wrong with this poster's Honda Civic Hybrid, I could definitely see the technicians assuming the driver is at fault and blowing it off.
  20. Offline

    DaveinOlyWA 3rd Time was Solariffic!!

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    $45,000...wow, nice deal. i want one too!!

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