CNN tries to fabricate story about Toyota SUA

Discussion in 'Prius, Hybrid, EV and Alt-Fuel News' started by spwolf, Mar 2, 2012.

  1. spwolf

    spwolf Senior Member

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    Video: Translated Toyota memo shows electronic acceleration concern – Anderson Cooper 360 - CNN.com Blogs

    Toyota | Toyota Responds to CNN Story Tonight

    Basically CNN got some engineering test papers from Japan when Toyota was testing pre-production Adaptive Cruise Control and tries to pull a word out context saying that there was an software failure on pre-production system never sold in the USA and hence there could be software failure on all Toyota cars sold in the USA.

    Here is the video when they interview Toyota engineer:
    Video - Breaking News Videos from CNN.com

    who is patiently explaining that they are making failure on purpose to see if fail-safes will work properly during their preproduction runs.

    Complete video shows lack of the understanding from Journalists and their try to make sensational headlines.

    I often watch CNN when there is something happening in the world, and this made me understand how little of the truth is in the media... it is pretty sad actually :-(
     
  2. spwolf

    spwolf Senior Member

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    basically from engineer, this is what was tested
    - Full range Adaptive Cruise Control (stop to 0 and start to preset speed again)
    - vehicle was put ahead of it so it stopped due to radar sensing vehicle
    - then they try to introduce small input of the gas pedal which could be failure in the system and not actual foot on the gas.
    - vehicle tried to accelerate and it got stopped by radar sensor still seing the object in front of it, without car actually moving.
    - toyota adjusted the sensitivity of the throttle sensor so it would respond to slightly more forceful movement of the pedal and sent internal document showing other engineers about sensitivity adjustments.

    Main point of test was how to detect when throttle was pressed on purpose (for instance you seeing car accelerating to hit you and trying to avoid it and over-ride the cruise control), and with failure in the system.

    Main misunderstanding is "unintended acceleration" and trying to relate it to people Camry's spinning out of control... when this is ACC that is supposed to accelerate on its own. Not to mention it is in testing, they introduced failure to test it and of course, it is not even sold in the USA.
     
  3. jdcollins5

    jdcollins5 Senior Member

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    Yes, I read this on CNN.com this morning also. Media still trying to convince public that Toyota knew about the SUA and that it was a known software problem, even after the extensive NASA testing. Witchhunting :(

    I read CNN.com several times a day and just know to take everything I read with a grain of salt. Sad.
     
  4. KK6PD

    KK6PD _ . _ . / _ _ . _

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    Friggin CNN is so wrapped up in this 8 month Prostate Exam they call Political Coverage that they need some crap to fill in between the nasty bits....
    I do notice when ALL the other auto makers announce a recall it's treated much differently than a Toyota report.
    What ever happened to unbiased reporting, that was drummed into me when I was in College, your supposed to report the news accurately, not what you want your viewers to see. The current mode of selective Journalism really sucks big time.
    I do not need your opinion, I need the accurate facts, and I will make up my own opinion!
    There are just way too many Lemmings running around today, I wish they would finally just find that damn cliff!
     
  5. ItsNotAboutTheMoney

    ItsNotAboutTheMoney EditProfOptInfoCustomUser Title

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    No, it's not a witch-hunt, it's typical journalism. A witch-hunt is not letting the facts get in the way of an opinion. Typical journalism is not letting the facts get in the way of a good story. At least with a witchhunt you have the hope that you can eventually stop it by convincing them of the truth. Journalism doesn't even care about the truth.

    (In case it wasn't clear from the above, I have a deep loathing of journalism.)
     
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  6. wwest40

    wwest40 Member

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    My I say...

    I told you so...!!

    There is no such thing as bug-proof software, certainly non as complex as that needed to run modern day engine/transaxle combinations, just bugs that have not yet been discovered or encountered.
     
  7. Rebound

    Rebound Senior Member

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    You told us what? That we can count on CNN to lie?
     
  8. fuzzy1

    fuzzy1 Senior Member

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    It either failed in bankruptcy, or was bought out by large entertainment operations.
    If you want Journalism, you are looking in the wrong place, possibly even the wrong era. The big outlets are here to grab your attention and keep you sufficiently entertained to provide a big market for their real paying customers -- the advertisers.

    Don't forget: the real customers are the advertisers. The product being delivered to them is your attention.
     
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  9. KK6PD

    KK6PD _ . _ . / _ _ . _

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    Yeah it's like we say at the Network level I am at, the shows are just the filler to space out the commercials.
    THANKS to the inventer of the DVR. I can watch 4 hours of programming in 3, you just fast forward through all the commericials, intros and outros, and just watch the meat of the show!
    As far as the wrong era of Journalism, it's has changed, I am still the same. Accurate reporting, sadly is a thing of the past. After all, why let a good set of facts get in the way of a garbage piece of reporting!
     
  10. The Electric Me

    The Electric Me Go Speed Go!

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    We are talking about translations and definitions.

    And not having direct access to the document, or a great command of written Japanese, I have no idea what CNN may be fabricating or not.

    Given the depth of investigation into Sudden Unintended Acceleration, I have to at least question why this document wasn't handed over to the NHTSA.

    If it's as innocent and actually supportive of Toyota as Toyota is claiming, why not included it in the handed over information? In an open investigation of the potential for SUA, if Toyota did any testing, and had any results that either indicated the system worked as designed...or even under test conditions could be made to fail...that should of been shared with the Investigation.

    I have to be suspicious that it wasn't shared. That's IMO a bigger aspect to this than how CNN might or might not be spinning the information in the document.

    What it means can be debated. The fact that it seems Toyota hid this information, or seeked to keep it internal cannot.
     
  11. spwolf

    spwolf Senior Member

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    lol... did you even watch the toyota engineer answers?

    Do you even understand what is in question here?

    Toyota tested PRE-PRODUCTION Adaptive Cruise Control NOT SOLD IN USA. And it worked fine.

    What exactly should they hand over to NTHSA? Please explain, as I am struggling to see the point of them handing over the testing of pre-production product that never got sold in the usa. Which actually worked fine btw.
     
  12. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    pols promoting guv motors one day and CNN disparaging toyota the next. hmm...
     
  13. spwolf

    spwolf Senior Member

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    all when GM is again starting to lose their market share... SURPRISE!!!
     
  14. wwest40

    wwest40 Member

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    The way I read this..

    During a test, simulation, of the adaptive CC someone went WOT, full throttle, just after, simultaneous with, the adaptive CC applying the brakes as a result of "approaching" an object at too fast, a FAST rate, at which time the adaptive CC improperly/inappropriately released the braking by the adaptive CC system.

    Subsequently this very test (inadvertently stumbled upon [above]) was incorporated into another vehicle's adaptive CC.

    Toyota, obviously, was making an effort to detect this same "bug" should it happen to exist in yet another firmware version.

    A comparable thing in actual SUA events might be applying, tapping, the brakes in order to "kill" CC while at the same time, EXACTLY the same time, applying full throttle.
     
  15. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    should be easy enough for nhtsa or nasa to test, if they haven't already.

    as far as i'm concerned tho, if this had anything to do with the spate of claims that came right after the lexus floor mat accident, it would still be happening today.
     
  16. wwest40

    wwest40 Member

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    Not if sawing off part of the pedal also involved a firmware reflash that was the actual fix...
     
  17. The Electric Me

    The Electric Me Go Speed Go!

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    A year ago and since the investigation, Toyota has long claimed absolutely no evidence existed that they had any problem with their electronics that could result in SUA.

    Like I said, I can't read Japanese and I don't have access to the document CNN obtained. So I'm not arguing "how" CNN is spinning the information.

    Regardless of how you want to perceive the information. CNN says the translation admits that Toyota did execute a test that DID result in changes to the ulitmate production vehicle. My feeling is that is clearly information that should of been shared with the NHTSA.

    Even if the reality is that the information is "We did a Test, Found a bug, Fixed the bug...if you're doing an investigation or cooperating with an investigation involving you vehicles and SUA? IMO that is information that should be shared. Toyota can choose the language...made an adjustment and refinement...but that also translates...to through testing we discovered parameters that resulted in making needed changes.

    Toyota has never admitted that a test was done that resulted in a "refinement or adjustment" of their system at all. Evidently...Now..when faced with the document..they are admitting.

    I'm still suspicious that with all the information that was revealed and shared..this particular test, and this particular document just happens to NOT get forwarded.

    It may be, exactly as Toyota presents it. However, Toyota's Engineer, who oddly has no Japanese Language skills, is presenting a clearly different translation of the document than CNN, who evidently had the document translated by multiple sources.

    Listen, All I'm really saying, is I don't think there's enough information here to conclude CNN is farbricating a story. But neither is their enough information to exonerate Toyota.

    What I'm saying is that document validly raises suspicion. If not from the results of the test, from the very way it has been handled.

    Unless you have the document in your hand, and are Japanese or well versed in translating Japanese, I think it unfair to either condem Toyota or accuse CNN.

    You don't want me to believe what CNN is saying? Or at least question it? Then conversely I must also question Toyota's paid representative the Toyota Engineer.

    Somebody is lost in translation.

    The accusation that CNN is fabricating a story is severe. As severe as the accusation that Toyota is hiding information. I would not make either accusation lightly. Nor would I instantly believe CNN's spin of what the document reveals or means...or Toyota's reaction and spin in light of the documents revelation.

    Trust me, you can look over my posts through the period when Toyota was involved in the massive recall and the investigations.

    I'm clearly not for a Witch Hunt. However? That sword must swing both ways.

    Evidently there now exists a document that suggests Toyota in test conditions....did discover an issue with their adaptive cruise control. An Issue evidently severe enough that it resulted in a "adjustment and refinement" of the system.

    Maybe there IS nothing more to the document. I will however not instantly take either Toyota's word on that....or CNN's report. And the fact that Toyota kept this test, those results, and that document private...I find suspicious. Especially in light of Toyota's claims during the time that NO EVIDENCE ever existed that they had any problems with their electronics or software...ever.

    Witch Hunts go both ways.
     
  18. qbee42

    qbee42 My other car is a boat

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    Have any of you done development engineering in a large corporation? There are many, many people involved across dozens of departments. The test described in this story is typical and very common, so much so that it wouldn't attract much attention. It doesn't have any direct bearing on the previous SUA investigation. I suspect it went below the radar until someone stumbled upon it recently.

    Despite the tinfoil hats, not everything is a conspiracy.

    I have worked in R&D at large multi-national corporations. I've managed R&D in the same. I've also been the head of a large organization involved in complex lawsuits. I can say with great certainty that no one person knows all the details in a case like this, and many, many documents were missed simply due to the complexity and confusion inherent in any large undertaking.

    Could this omission be deliberate? Perhaps. Is it likely that it's deliberate? No. There isn't any smoking gun; no horrible truth to hide - I can't see why it would have been hidden.

    Tom
     
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  19. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    i haven't had either done and i'm sure many others haven't as well. uh-oh, imagine if they told us it was the pedal and then someone gets killed because it's the software? :eek:
     
  20. Flyman

    Flyman Junior Member

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    I've said it before, why even listen to the "Communist News Network", there is seldom any truth there. Anderson Cooper? What the expletive deleted, does he know about anything?
     
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