I searched around and didn't find anyone that's calculated the cost to recharge the PIP. I took one of my electric bills and added an extra 4.4 kWh, the max charge capacity. I calculated an extra 20 cents Delivery charge and 32 cents Supply Charge. So that's 52 cents per charge and that's rounding up. So if a gallon of gas is $3.50 and if the PIP gets 45 mpg minimum, and if EV mode gets 15 miles per charge, then the 3 charges to go 45 miles (3 x 15) only costs 3 x 52 cents = $1.56. Less than 1/2. That's great. Has anyone else checked?

4.4kWh is the capacity of the battery pack. Full charge from empty will only consume 3kWh, because the battery is not full discharged nor full charged to extend it's longevity. In my country, kWh with all the taxes costs me 0.06 EUR at off-peak hours and 0.10 EUR at peak hour. So, that 21km drive to work and back home will cost me 0.18EUR

Here in North Texas my electricity contract is for $0.095 / kWh, so maximum charge of 3kWh should be 28.5 cents. My contract expires in Sept. when I should be able to contract for a lower rate if the rates stay where they are today. The cheapest rate today is 7.14 cents / kWh.

Here in NM (US) the base cost of a kwh is 7 cents, but when all the different per kwh fees are included it totals about 11 cents a marginal kwh. I find cost/distance a more useful number. We do not know yet the wh/mile for the PiP, but if my guess of ~ 315 - 325 wh/mile (wall-wheel) is right, cost in my town will be 3.5 cents a mile for the electric miles. Nowadays I pay about 6 cents a mile to fuel my Lexus CTh.

Has it been documented that the PIP will only need 3 kWh max to charge? Leaving 0.7 kWh (16%) on either end of the usable battery capacity is a lot. That's 16% unused bottom of battery, 68% usable battery capacity and 16% unused top of battery.

For long Li-XX life, it's about 20% SOC cut-off at discharge and 90% SOC cut-off at charge. That's about 30%, which equates to 1.4kWh of the 4.4kWh battery pack. The rest is the 3kWh of usable charge.

You also need to account for charging losses. Looking only at usable pack capacity alone isn't enough. On the Leaf, charging losses are higher charging at 120 volts vs. 240 volts. For the Leaf, from http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=155282#p155282

Not really if you compare it to the Volt which has a usable capacity of 10.4 kWh out of 16 kWh, which is 65% usable battery capacity.

OK, besides the common assumptions, has it been documented anywhere, or is there a Toyota person here in the Forum to confirm, that the PIP will only need 3 kWh max to charge? And while you're at it, is it documented how much kWh 120 vac is used to recharge the PIP that accounts for the charger efficient? Somebody at Toyota must have these numbers. We shouldn't have to guess.

Well, in another 30-60 days we can measure these parameters definitively. We do know that the battery pack is 4.4 kWh, and we do know that the battery management system will not allow you to charge the pack to 100% or discharge the pack to zero. So 3kWh is a good figure to use until it is measured. There are plenty of charging systems out there that have efficiencies over 90%. Anyway, in another 30 days or so, we will know for sure.

The 3.3KW charger in the leaf has been measured at %75 efficient at 120V, and at %85 efficient at 240V. The PiP is also going to have a similar size onboard charger, perhaps even the same brand/model in the Leaf, so use those numbers to calculate your losses.

Google Translate Translated: Q: Amount of time and power required to charge the time / 1] The general charge? A: To fully charged from scratch, about 1.5 hours, it takes about 3 hours is in AC100V AC200V. Amount of power is required (kilowatt hour) 3.0kWh of about three hours using a dryer, for example.

Tracksyde, if you start Google Translate on a webpage, then click another link on the webpage, the web browser address bar doesn't update. For those that were confused b/c the webpage doesn't show what Tracksyde quoted, this is the correct link: Google Translate

There are lots of other discussions you can read now that lots of folks have PiPs in the wild, but I believe people are finding its about 3-3.4kWh AC per charge netting 10-17 mi of EV range depending on driving conditions and style. At US Average 11.8c/kWh, that's $0.02 - 0.04/mi. That will of course vary with local electric rates. A 55mpg Prius with gas at $3.80 is $0.069/mi, while an average 24mpg light duty vehicle is $0.16/mi. Rob