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    hill High Fiber Member

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    milkman44 Member

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    The size and the PRICE keeps me from being the least bit interested in looking at one.
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    austingreen Senior Member

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    The serious auto analysts debunked part of this. The fire/s did not reduce demand until December. The missed estimate had most to do with logistics - getting the right dealers the cars they could sell- and price. The fires may affect 2012 sales, and I hope gm and NHTSA address this so anti-plug in hysteria doesn't hurt sales of volt, leaf, tesla, etc.

    If the fud dies down we can expect over 20K volts sold in the US in 2012. This will be aided by better production and distribution, SULEV status with a redesign for CARB to carry hov stickers, and fleet sales. I don't think the 45K production number for the US is likely, but GM could do it with a price drop.
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    usbseawolf2000 HSD PhD

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    Not bad but more than a third of those are fleet sales according to WSJ. Prius Plugin is coming out in a few months so we'll see.
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    hill High Fiber Member

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    I haven't seen any guestimates yet, as to how the PiP might effect future Volt sales.
    You doubt GM's claim of over 40K?
    I do agree, that price has everything to do with sales. The economy is wobbly to say the least. Couple that with paper money being printed by the forest load ... + tons of middle income manufacturing jobs outsourced, the evaporation of building/construction demand etc ... the pool of $40K car buyers can't be too large. If GM hits their 2012 goal of 40K units, I'll definitely be saying, "WOW". Missing their 2011 target by (tad less than) 30% after intra- dealership sales, government fleet sales, and still managing to have units sitting on the dealer's lots too. It's like watching your basketball team down by 20 point in the last minute of the 4th ... and you best 3 players have fouled out. For the sake of PHEV's still, I cheer.

    .
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    cycledrum PSOCSOASP

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    Oh brother, GM is going to earmark 45k Volts for US this year. Get serious. Also, Volt finished ahead of Dodge Challenger and Porsche 911 in owner satisfaction %, two off the map cars. O.K.

    I'll bet they sell about 15k Volts this year and about a rate of 24k PiPs (16k for 8 months).
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    spwolf Senior Member

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    eh, no, not logistics but lack of demand.

    Lets be realistic here, GM said 8 months ago that they will produce 16k units. Somehow that turned to 10k 7 months later.

    Listing sites now list 3-4 months of supply of Volts, which make it one of the worst selling cars in the USA.

    By the same matrix, Prius has 1 month supply.

    Maybe cars.com and others are spreading propaganda against GM and Volt? Maybe Chevy dealers dont like to sell cars while Toyota ones do? GM PR has been spreading FUD for decade now. I dont believe anything they say.

    I will tell you this - once Prius Plugin comes out, there is no way they will sell more than 20k Volts, and it will be outsould by Prius PHEV easily...
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    usbseawolf2000 HSD PhD

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    Yea, lack of demand. GM let the dealers sell the demo vehicles. Fleet sales are more than a third of Dec sales. That means private sales are less than 1,000. Government bought the demo vehicles at full price with our tax dollars.

    I don't have a problem with the incentives for electrification. What bothers me is promoting the niche vehicles (Volt and Karma) with gas engine equally as the full EVs. GM gets to sell gas engines in every single Volt or Karma and those cars get $7,500 incentive. There is also more grants for R&D, loans for the battery plant and bailout money involved. All of this for a hope that mainstream Americans would be able to afford it.

    If those cars already meet the American family needs, that's fine. They are not 5 seater midsize cars that meet the needs, just wants. So, wait for gen2 and gen3?

    If Corvette was heavily subsidized so the mainstream American family can afford it with the hope that next gen would be cheaper, bigger and more functional, you'll think that's a crazy idea.

    Toyota couldn't do it with the Prius. They were able to make Gen2 midsize and more functional by switching from trunk sedan to hatchback. It was no longer a niche vehicle. They were not able to drop the price (MSRP) with gen2 or gen3. In fact, the price raised due to inflation and exchange rate (probably N/A for the Volt).
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    hill High Fiber Member

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    Looking on the bright side - the more Volts that the government buys, the less $7,500 the government has to write.  Hey!  That's a win/win! 
     
    Ok so I'm over reaching.  Let me try again with another rationalization.  The government wastes money on nuke subs, laser guided bombs, air craft carriers, stealth fighters, all in the name of freedom (to keep our oil interests flowing, to some extent, in geographic regions that hate us - in large part because we're there).  Volt investment? If buyers use less carbon based fuel, then maybe that's good.  Hey - compared to military spending? ... helping GM?  ... that's small potatoes.  There, I feel much better.

    .
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    SageBrush Senior Member

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    I'm here to help you, Hill.

    Every Volt sold greenwashes a 100 GM SUV and truck fuel guzzlers.
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    oldasdust New Member

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    Gm better hope they hit their ever changing sales mark because when the pip and Prius c go nationwide the party might be over. Standing just offstage and in the shadows is their real player waiting to enter the fight cruise hybrid. Watch how fast they walk away from the Volt and spin how they had to throw something into the fight to counter Toyota and Ford until the Cruise Hibrid was ready.
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    cycledrum PSOCSOASP

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    When I look in the newspaper ads for large GM dealers, the vehicles are huge. Sure, they have the Cruze and Malibu, and Sonic, Volt, other than that, it's

    Equinox, Arcada, Tahoe, Suburban, Escalade, Silverado, Camaro, Corvette .... 5.7 L V8s baby .... guess we gotta keep up our NASCAR and NHRA roots ...


    blech :mad:
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    Erikon Active Member

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    I always believed the Volt was never really intended to be anymore than a placeholder for GM. It gives them something to advertise until they can cobble together a hybrid that may get MPGs somewhere south of the Prius but not completly embarrassing.:D
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    drinnovation EREV for EVER!

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    Not true. they produced just over 17K units this year roughly 14.5K Volts and 2.5K Amperes. But Late Nov+Dec production does not make it to destination until nearly end of year.

    2 years ago their production goals for CY2011 was 10K units. They upped that to 16K in June.

    Logistics were definitely part of it.. they were not even for sale in most of the US states until November. I know people still waiting on their orders from October. (Mostly because of dealer allocation issues.)

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