Say what?

In my view Detroit still just doesn't get it....
They try to get celebrities into the Escape Hybrid, and whine if they can't get enought folks to do that.
Hhhmmm, I have the impression that they (Detroit) believe it's all about the moniker 'Hybrid', and not about mileage. The Escape is great, and hybrid technology is great, but the Escape is still an SUV, and there are still small cars without hybrid technology that get better mileage..
They just don't get it!

AAAhhhhhh isn't that sweet? The Big Three have now "seen the light" and want to produce hybrids.

I'm really getting sick of hearing this self-serving claptrap from them. They had the technology, especially in the GM EV-1 that for my driving cycle would have made a LOT more sense than a hybrid, and they blew it.

They even got a lot of "free" money from DOE to accelerate their research.

I don't think the driving public will change their attitudes either, if that quote from the "construction manager" is any indication. I got stuck in slow traffic yesterday due to road work and had to put up with an idiot in a new Dodge quad cab.

It even had decals on the hood line "Yeah it's a HEMI!"

:roll:

He wanted to race me in congested traffic and I refused to play the game.

So he would race the motor, even power-braked it once, and when the light turned green he'd race off while I smoothly pulled away. At every red light I'd pull even with him.

This went on for almost 4 blocks. Then the stars aligned and he blew past a Winnipeg Police Service Crown Vic hidden behind a building doing lidar speed checks. The disco lights lit up and I slowed down to drive around the cruiser as the officer got out. The nice officer smilled and waved to me and I waved back.

I then powered down the window and waved to the Dodge driver. HA!

Good tale, Jay! Good on ya!

Good tale, Jay! Good on ya!

BWA HA HA!

Karmageddon strikes again!

It's not very often a dangerous/idiot driver gets pulled over, so it made my day.

I'd hate to pay his fine, he must have been going almost double the posted limit.

Did I mention it was a construction zone too? Around here fines double in construction zones.

These Detroit idiots were caught flat-footed in '73, too, when they were already a decade behind Japan in fuel economy.

They learned nothing in three decades, because gas remained fairly cheap.

Deja vu all over again!

The Detroit corporate wizards were stupidly enamoured of the fat bottom line they realized by selling junk when Peter Drucker warned them. The Japanese were smart enough to believe Drucker and walked away with the market *and* the bottom line by building and selling quality cars.

Now they get another chance and blow it just like before.

Fool them once, shame on them; fool them twice, (lol) they are still the same damn fools a generation later.

Look, all you domestic haters can just stuff it. I've heard through a source that GM already has everything done for a hybrid that gets nearly 100mpg and has real power (200+ hp) and lots of room, unlike you're tiny little death boxes. In fact, they have had this for over 10 years! Before Honda, before Toyota!

The engine is based on principals gained from the Fish carburator and fuel magnitization technology stolen from the 20th Century Motors, makers of the Dale. Most people are aware of the fact that this company was shut down by the government, but it was not because it was a scam, it was closed because off oil companies. They had real cars, giving milaege into the 70-80 mpg range. There were more pantents purchased by the oil companies that have found their way to GM as an energy crisis contingency plan. This technology has been advance and tested in GM's racing programs in NASCAR. The electric portion of their hybrid technology has been tested in the EV1, a car that japan has not even been able to touch!

Late in the 90's the big three along with the government tried to see if they could best the 100mpg mark using diesel techology. Its plane to see that they didn't mess with gasoline because they had a working model using that technology. There profits are too big in the cars that are selling now for GM to even release something. Sales are up over 47%.

The fact is, no one wants 70 hp cars that make Cavaliers look like luxury cars. GM is just waiting to pounce on Toytoa and Honda when the time is right. So keep quiet unless you wanna look stupid.

Wow, that's some conspiracy theory you've got there.

I think your tin beanie needs another layer of tin foil.

Yes, we all know about the PNGV prototypes. They were not "real" cars... unless you consider more than doubling the price of a vehicle realistic.

Toyota could do the same thing with Prius. Replace the engine with a diesel. Replace the body with a light-weight fiber. Replace the external mirrors with internal screens and tiny cameras. Replace the seats with webbed frames. Replace the NiMH battery-pack with a Li-Ion. Cover the back tires with a skirt. Eliminate the SULEV emission constraint. And require 50 PSI for the tires.

When would that be?

They are currently getting a ton of bad press about how they misjudged the market and are now struggling to deliver a product that can compete.

Just yesterday there was an article quoting Larry Burns, GM's vice president of R&D and strategic planning. He mislead about the efficiency of Prius. He was extremely vague about the overall efficiency of fuel-cells. He ignored emissions entirely. And he intentionally avoided stating what the goals are they actually want to achieve by asking the question himself instead. See:

What long-term problem have we fixed with the miracle of a hybrid? If you woke up tomorrow and all 220 million cars and trucks in the United States had been hybridized to the degree that the Prius has - all getting 25 percent better fuel economy - in six years we would be consuming the same amount of petroleum that we are right now. Fuel cells create a better automobile that's 50 percent more energy-efficient overall and sustainable from energy and safety perspectives. We're going to compete for customers by having good hybrids, but these vehicles account for less than 1 percent of US auto sales. I admire what Toyota has done, but at the end of the day, what problems are we trying to fix here?

Guess thats why I had to wait in line 8 months to get mine, because no one wants them.
Guess thats also why it was the Motor Trend car of the year.

It's events like that which just sweeten the day. Great story, Jay!

Two things:

• to like in the Ford Escape, and I'm very curious to take a look at the Mariner.
  
  However, when something sucks, I call it -- be it domestic or international.
  
• As to your miracle GM car story... I think "tokeMaster" was a very appropriate user name for you to choose.

Look I didn't come here to start stuff. I was just curious about the Prius. I just can't take it when people start bashing the boys in Detroit. They work hard and have good products. They have the lead with cars like the EV1. Why would they sell hybrids when Toyota is dumping them, much like they did with other cars in the 80's. GM makes lots of money on SUVS. A company is supposed to make money not loose it.

All I can say, is Toyota has a long way to go from what I have read so far. GM may not be the first to market, but when they deliver, lookout. And as far as conspiracy story, I know its hard to believe, but there are so many truths hidden from us. Its just what I heard and it doesn't sound so far off from the truth.

19tokemaster, your sentiments are good, but out of touch with reality. US automakers are sucking wind, while Japanese automakers profits are soaring. Ford and GM debt was recently downgraded to "junk" status, and the future outrlook is not good, while Toyota is poised to a very successful future. This isn't necessarily good, but it is true. See this from the Detroit Press:

http://www.detnews.com/2005/editorial/0503.../A15-129850.htm