DIY plugin prius

I would have to agree. Part of the reason I recommend the cal-cars conversion. 10-12 Miles EV range, 1-2 year battery pack life, $3-4k cost, and you can do it today. Its still not really economically attractive, but its by far the best return on your time/money I've seen if you really want a plugin.

Rob

ok this post is in EURO's so do your dollar conversion yourself

lead battery - 625 euro = 250amps
DC-AC converter - 700 euro = 35amps and 8000watt @230volts
AC-DC converters - 40 euro = 1 amp * 35 = 35amps

1365 euro
ok.. about 2000 dollar!

and some extra stil not sure cabling etc. and switches

Thats <$2k if you are lucky and don't blow up anything pricey or have to make any design changes or need any extra tools/hw to get it working properly. That's why I would agree ~$5k is more reasonable.

Don't get me wrong. A dc:dc converter based solution is a superior way to do a conversion. Its just not the cheapest way. You have ~$1k piece of hw (thats probably still undersized) that replaces a single relay in the cal-cars design. Every thing else in the cal-cars design is to make it work well and / or safe. Thats why the Manzanita converter based conversion costs ~$10k even for lead acid. Even their solution can't get power from the HV system back into the battery, so in many ways ends up being less efficient than the cal-cars. At this point I would be very surprised if anyone can beat the cal-cars design for EV miles per upfront $.

20 lead acid 20Ah batteries: $800-$1000
controller (which you should have too so you don't blow anything up): $500
Charger: $1000
Contactors, battery boxes & wiring (you should have these too to make it safe): $500-$1000

Total: $2800-$3500

That should come down even a little more when the commercial controller is replaced with an open source one in the next 3-6 months.

Rob

35amps@230volts <= 670amps@12volts
The PbA battery will boil up in a minute.

Ken@Japan

yes mmm not sure wy i got 250amps there.... a mistake

and what i jave forgotten in the moment of excitement is the 20hours of discharge rate that the battery's have

so i need to do the following 670amps x 20 = 13400 amps needed for Ah ( hourly ) mmm seams a bit to high

mm @what discharge rate is the HV battery of the prius rated?

To bad they do not have power outlets at red lights and stop signs.

It's more than 20 kW, more than 100A@201.6V.

Ken@Japan

so the prius HV batterie can give 100aH or 100Ah20?

adn what about the text i posted before ( from calcars of i am correct
------------------------------------------------------------------------
On a flat road with no headwind, it takes ~210 watt-hours to move the Prius 1 mile at 60 mph. Hills or headwinds or accelerating past someone make this worse. Careful driving around town makes it better. But its a good ball-park number to work with.
A battery with a usable capacity of 210 watt hours them would normally move the Prius ~1 mile. 1000 watt-hours (or 1kwh) would move it ~5 miles on electricity alone
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

intresting link
Peukert's law: Information and Much More from Answers.com

a 12volt 90ah(20hours) car battery only provides not 12x90=1080Wh buth 12x4.5(90/20)=54Wh so i need 11 of these ( not calculation loss lead battery peakers law ) just to have 2x the range EVmode. and then i am complety discharging the suplement battery's

i need a battery not used for starting a car and providing lots of starting current buth one with a bigger Ah in 1 hour.

210 Wh constant driving means 17,5 Ah @12volts so i need a 12voltx17,5=210+1,3(peukert loss)=273Ah*1,2(20% loss converting Dc-ac etc)=328Ah battery

i post this again Prius Palm Mileage Simulator

Concerning Bill Moore's statement about a Prius using 250Wh (Watt-hours) per mile in an http://www.evworld.com/ article; here are some real numbers for the 2004 Prius & its energy consumption. First let’s start with a set of environmental variables so that we can really compare apples to apples and then let’s look at energy used at different speeds under those very influential environmental variables. Update July 30th, 2007 -- This portion of the web site has had a marked increase in visits recently & I understand that it has been for Wh/mile comparisons to other vehicles & technologies so, I have removed the crosswind that was present & turned the AC to OFF because many folks were overlooking the fact that a detrimental crosswind was present & were quoting this table without acknowledging the detrimental crosswind nor the AC being ON.

Temperature: 87º F
Elevation: 400’ feet above sea level
Humidity: 67%
Barometer: 30.03 in/hg
Load: 350 lbs (driver & gear)
Auto AC: OFF
Climate Control: 72º F
Wind: NONE
Wind Dir: 235º (tail wind/crosswind – slightly detrimental)
Fuel: 114,500 BTU (avg Summer Blend) -- see: http://www.epa.gov/otaq/rfgecon.htm
kWh: 33.5568 kWh (energy available per gallon/US)
RRR: .001144 Road Rolling Resistance (smooth asphalt roads)
TRR: .007 Tire Rolling Resistance
Cd: .26 Aerodynamic Coefficient of Drag
FA: 2.16m^2 Frontal Area in meters squared
cwCd: 1.4e-5 (crosswind correction for Cd)
cwFA: 8.5e-5 (crosswind correction for FA)

MPHWatt hours per mile% of Energy used to Overcome Aerodynamic Drag40152.8 Wh29.8%45181.3 Wh31.9%50190.8 Wh37.3%55202.9 Wh42.5%60215.5 Wh47.6%65233.4 Wh51.6%70250.3 Wh55.8%75268.5 Wh59.7%80287.8 Wh63.4%
As you can see, Bill is being quite fair in his 250 Watt hours per mile quote in his article-response, as in this real-world example it would fall somewhere in between 70-75 MPH.
See the Hybrid Synergy Simulator:

ok
its a 201,6 volt 6,5ah battery )1,3kwh
but it can discharge 100 amp

That's why I told you your project needs more than three years.

Ken@Japan

o haha you mean that i still have to learn a lot

well i can learn fast

picture from The new 2004 Toyota Prius : My CAN Project



so there is a 5.5 current from the HV battery to the elec motor... at this speed
meaning 226,5 * 5,5 = 1245,75 watts

In fact I think they can even put out 150A for short periods. The oem NimH cells are really under-appreciated for how impressive they are IMHO.

Rob

Cheap, I seem to recall you saying that you installed a carputer so you can offload the CANView data. Is that correct?

If so, what kind of interface between the two did you have and is there anything else you can do with the interface?

i never installed a carputer
( YET )

--
some nice info about lead acid battery future

Technology Review: A Cheaper Battery for Hybrid Cars

maybe a option for the DIY plugin prius

some new thing to get longer EV mode drivings

when you run out of petrol the car wil warn you with the red sign on the dash and stil be able to run a few miles on EV mode.

What if the battey pack is fully charged and you disconnect the fuel pump..
and you monitor the SOC via the canbus.. and connect the power to the fuel again @ a margin of 40% then there is no more battery damage and the engine kickin in because of cold wheater is no longer a isue

a great story

Browser Warning

but read this

Browser Warning

to trickle charge the prius II battery the following is the right way:

12 volt battery and a trickle charger is 300mAps
a 201,6 volt / 12volt = 16,8 *0,3 = 5,04 amps @ 201,6 volt to trickle charge the prius II HV battery pack.

any comments?

Today a next step in DIY plugin story

testing the test ac high voltage to DC high voltage setup.

picture's below

i go from a 12 DC volts source to 246 volts AC and then from 246 AC to 231 DC high voltage

what i want to do is to keep a high voltage on the prius battery pack even if the 12 volt battery pack go's down to 11 volts

if i use the prius+ conversion then a 20 x 12volts battery pack is paralleled to the prius HV pack
and if the 20x12 pack drops in voltage so Will the current going to the prius HV pack.

i want to have a inverter thats controls the output 230-260volt DC even if the 12 volt battery pack drops its voltage
and when the 12 volt pack drops down to 10,5 the inverter Will shutdown
so i protect the 12volt pack .

what i do not get is that when i measure the DC voltage on with the setting to AC i get more then 500 volts AC?
( on the pictures - left site is AC right side is DC )

o yes this is the firts setup and i stil need to put a elco in it for a more smooth DC output