well written article and i can easily understand the writers frustration with the design flaws of the car. having no interest what so ever in any gm product i simply have no knowledge what so ever on what the car is like. if the name plates were removed i would nt have better than a guesser's chance of picking one out of a crowd.

but bad design along with gm's failure to produce quality products, i can wholey agree with the writer that i find it amazing that gm is still in business.

i dont want to see a lot of american workers losing their jobs

i dont want to see any american company close their doors

i do want to see any company or entity, be it government or private business that stands in the way of helping to foster a viable transportation solution go out of business

i do want to see a company who cares nothing about their customers go out of business

I'm no GM fan, but I'm not sure his criticism of "the absence of exterior key locks on doors other than the driver's. This last omission would be less annoying if the master lock on the driver's door unlocked the other doors (as it does on comparable imports). But GM does not include that feature" is totally fair.

My former 02 Maxima and my 04 350Z also only have key holes on the driver's side and none of the rest of the doors. There were both more expensive than the G6. I'm not sure what he means by the latter but I'd imagine there was a power door lock switch that could've unlocked the doors and I'm guessing that he could've unlocked all the doors via remote fob by pressing the unlock button twice.

So basically the 'author' was unimpressed with a rental G6 which had probably had the crap kicked out of it....

Hrm.. the stories I could tell about my rental Camry, that probably had the crap kicked out of it.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Jonnycat26 @ Dec 31 2006, 04:26 PM) [snapback]369037[/snapback]</div>

It would be nice if switches and buttons were ergonomically placed but every car does take some getting used to. Having only driven GM I'd probably complain about button location on Fords and Chryslers. Toyota is no better than GM as I have to unlock a front door to open a rear door.

It sounds like the rental company could have made the experience better if the fob was set to unlock all the doors and the child lock disengaged.

If a car can't stand up to rental use for a couple of years how is it going to handle long term use by one owner?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(cwerdna @ Dec 31 2006, 04:15 PM) [snapback]369033[/snapback]</div>

If it worked. I had to rent a GM POS for a day and the fob didn't work. I had no passenger so door locks not an issue. Everything else was spot on plus add the car I was driving was a convertible and worse visibility than the Prius. The seats were worse too.

More and more people are renting the car they plant to buy prior to purchase. This practice isn't going GM any good either.

What I found particularly telling was the comment that GM was run by bean counters and ad men and Toyota was run by engineers. Spot on.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(JimN @ Dec 31 2006, 05:49 PM) [snapback]369042[/snapback]</div>

Middle snipped..

Anyone who drives a Prius, and that includes me, can not complain about the ergonomics in other cars. Any car that doesn't include (a) radio preset buttons or (B) a way to switch vents and fan speeds without taking eyes off the road is... an ergonomic nightmare.

And as for the abuse... when I returned my Camry to Toyota I'm sure I had shaved a few years off it's life. But that's nothing compared to what I did to the xA that they had originally loaned me.

It isn't just GM that doesn't get it.

I'll start with "our" society. WE have all responded to snide remarks about our chosen dream car. I had one guy ask me if I had to trade my penis for that little car. I told him his mother bought it for me. I was with three friends and he was alone - It seemed safe at the time.)

We buy what we see on TV. Not what is best for us. Our domestic auto industry has been marketing that the best vehicle for us is the SUV. Because they get the most profit from these vehicles.

The oil companies don't want us to conserve our use of oil at all. They just want to get federal tax breaks to spend any money to improve their bottom line. Do some research on what kind of tax breaks they get. Isn't it ironic when they report the gross profits they have had the last two years?

Our elected representatives don't care enough to take any effort to pass any laws to enforce better mileage standards because ti isn't in their best interest. The auto, and oil industries pay them to maintain the status quo. The defense industry wants to keep us dependent on foreign oil so we spend more money in the defense industry. It's a vicious circle.

I bought a Prius because I believe that they only way my opinion could be heard is by speaking with my wallet. I sure can't give any elected official enough of a "campaign donation" to get any attention.

Another thing that's not totally accurate is "You might blame GM's woes on poor American workmanship or the cost of American labor. But Japanese total labor costs are comparable, even with Detroit's higher health insurance costs".

The Big 3 are unfortunately saddled w/huge legacy healthcare costs and also stupid crap like job banks. I posted about this at http://www.priusonline.com/viewtopic.php?p...bfe67439b#74583 and http://www.priusonline.com/viewtopic.php?p=74690#74690 but unfortunately many of the detnews.com articles are gone now. I just dug up http://www.nytimes.com/2006/05/19/automobi...nyt&emc=rss on the topic.

http://www.detnews.com/2005/autosinsider/0.../A01-162446.htm briefly touches on job banks. "The result has been a glut of laid off workers receiving paychecks but not producing anything in return.

GM doesn't disclose the number of laid off workers, but Deutsche Bank estimates 12,000 workers are currently classified as temporarily laid off with another 3,500 in what's known as the jobs bank.

Hourly union workers placed on temporary laid-off status receive 95 percent of their take home pay. But after 48 weeks they are placed in the so-called jobs bank where they receive $52,000 per year in wages and benefits, until the current national contract expires in September 2007. "

The blame for this prob lies w/previous GM management and the UAW.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(cwerdna @ Dec 31 2006, 06:52 PM) [snapback]369119[/snapback]</div>

damn, paid not to work? I'd even move to Detroit for such a perk! It's hard for me to blame unions. They were formed well after corporations were and only after corporations created dismal working conditions. In my mind, unions exist because corporations abdicated their social responsibilities. If one believes the job of corporations is to make the most money possible (and can acknowledge they shovel it into the pockets of the hierarchy) at the expense of the actual workers, then one can certainly see why unions are necessary. Now, if corporations acted as good members of their communities, and practiced some sort of ratio of 'highest paid to lowest paid' then perhaps unions would not be needed.

Disclaimer...I'm self employed, and have never joined a union. I also pay my help half of what I earn. We make more, they make more. I pay the rent, purchase the equipment, maintain continuing ed, and find the clients. I also offer my business services for free to a limited number of needy. I'm no angel, just not an immoral pig. I walk my talk.

GRAZ nice piece in the window. You must take a certain amount of flak!

Well, that's just plain stupid. If you're paying someone you put them to work. Find something for them to do. And don't tell me they couldn't. They don't want to do the work you assign them to do, they can quit and work for someone else. Problem solved.

Hi All,

I guess this whole thing started when GM decided rather than allow the workforce to decrease by attrition, to accomodate automation, they came up with this dumb deal with the UAW. Now they can "Job Bank" anybody and put automation in place. But Automation takes people too, engineers to figure out how, and technicians to keep it running. In the meantime your still paying the "Job Bank"'rs. No way was this going to work. Freedom to automate was the percieved advantage, but Automation is more a slow rolling thing, takes time to find the best solution, or redesign product to be appropriate for automatic manufacture/assembly.

The end result is come September the attrition will be sudden and unavoidable. Rather than controlled, over time, and if the automation did what it promised not nearly as much (if any). And their technician sons/daughters would have someplace to go work.

I don't know. I rented a pair of G6s on a multi-stop business trip a few weeks ago and didn't mind them. My key fobs worked, ride and power were adequate, comfort was fine, and the interior ergonomics were far from the best I have seen but not the worst, either. The trip computer reported that I was averaging just a touch over 30mpg despite the relatively large V6. Would I buy one for myself? Well, obviously not because I didn't. But still, it isn't that bad.

Maybe the G6 he was referring to didn't have any powered locks at all, I have a friend with a Dodge Ram ('05?) with no power locks at all so they still make cars without power locks.

When the '04 Prius came out I stopped by the local Toyota dealer to ask about it. Of course they didn't have one to show me, but I was referred to Enterprise just a block away. Sure enough they had one, they even started it up and showed it to me. I mentioned that I would need a rental soon and the lady said they would be glad to rent me a Prius if one was available. When the time came they refused to rent me a Prius because I was not a Toyota customer despite what I was previously told. They only had two other cars left so my option was a "Ford Focus, an SUV or you can walk" (what kind of Enterprise Manager tells their customer to walk?). After reluctantly taking the Focus I went straight to a place where a friend would "pretend" to be a rally driver and took the Focus "rally" racing. I flew over a hill catching air, thought I was gonna crash as the engine stalled on landing and came to a grinding stop with the brake pedal mashed to the floor. The engine started right up, but from then on every time I came to a complete stop the entire car would shudder and sometimes stall. I called Enterprise right away and gave them an ear-full about how they tried to give me some broken POS Focus that I tried to refuse in the first place. The Manager told me to bring it back and they would take it to the dealer for repairs immediately (of course I washed it first). When I drove up the Manager was standing outside with the Prius fob in hand. He couldn't stop apologizing and proceeded to explain how I could only have the car over the weekend and if anything happens to it they will be in big trouble with Toyota and it couldn't be replaced. I thought it might be a bit much to ask for the extra insurance... I really enjoyed the 600+ miles I spent with a Prius that weekend, in fact I enjoyed it so much I now own one, thanks Enterprise!

BTW, the Focus is truly the worst car ever built...

I was forced to rent both a Chevy Silverado and a Chevy Aveo. The Silverado was a 2005 and had about 40,000 miles on it. It was amazingly sloppy in its steering and I plugged my scangauge in it and for mixed city/highwat driving I got 9mpg. My mustang does 26mpg for the same route. The Silverado was HUGE, 4x4 with 4 doors, and that is all the rental agency had at the time. Now it was comfortable, had power, good controls and great visability. Despite that I felt far more danger driving it then ANY other vehicle I had driven due to its sloppy steering, huge mass and the feeling that it could not get out of its own way if it had too.

The next available day I returned it for a Chevy Aveo. I found it getting about 28mpg in the same commute which while it sounds ok is only a bit more then my mustang yet the engine is 1/3 the size. The feel of the inside and controls was cheap but not crappy. I felt that this car <not made in usa by chevy> would have been an acceptable choice if it didnt get such poor mpg.


Saturn is where GM shines, I would not want to buy much else they make.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(ilusnforc @ Jan 1 2007, 12:33 PM) [snapback]369297[/snapback]</div>

Nope, it seems like the G6 has power locks standard per http://www.pontiac.com/g6sedan/specs_interior.jsp.

Sheesh, I'd hate to be the poor guy who bought the Focus that you abused. I'm no Ford fan, but I've driven several Ford Focuses and to me, they were pretty decent econoboxes although the previous gens had funky interiors. They used to have terrible reliability and a huge # of recalls in the early model years but reliability has gotten better. The Focus has won numerous reviews too.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(hampdenwireless @ Jan 1 2007, 02:32 PM) [snapback]369331[/snapback]</div>

The scary part is the the Chevy Silverado was the 2nd best selling vehicle in the US in 2005 per http://autos.msn.com/advice/article.aspx?contentid=4023245 and many other sources. It still has such a standing for 2006 per http://wardsauto.com/keydata/USSalesSummary0611.xls. We'll see final 06 standings in the next day or two.

I hate to throw gas on the fire but why not! I too rented a Pontiac G6 it had 300 mile on the odometer. What a POS. It had this nasty quirk, at low speed if you turned the steering wheel past 10 or 2 o'clock, and this was only low speed, the steering caused the car to dart either right or left depending on which way you happened to be turning. At that 10 or 2 o'clock position at low speed it was if you turned the steering wheel a half-turn. If I had expected it, the situation would have been fine but the first time it happened my stomach was in my throat. The rental agent said all GM cars had this feature. The other thing was the switch gear on the dash board, has GM ever heard of ergonomics? The dash board had the worst least intuitive layout I've ever seen. The bean counters have won again.

Just came back from Florida. I rented a red G6 coupe. It was a great car for a nonhybrid. 18mpg sucks. I was glad to get back to my Prius.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(FBear @ Jan 2 2007, 08:52 AM) [snapback]369587[/snapback]</div>

I've never driven a G6 so I can't speak to your experience, but it might actually be a feature. It might be speed sensitive steering.