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    cwerdna Senior Member

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    cwerdna Senior Member

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    Skoorbmax Senior Member

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    So on premium they are getting 33.7 mpg.

    100 miles @ 35.6 kWh @ $.152 for CA electricity = $5.41 for 100 miles IF those are all done on electric.

    CA gas prices he quotes $3.96. Let's say for 87 it's $3.80. (5.41/3.80)*50 = 71 miles in a Prius for the same cost as 100 miles in the Volt at CA prices. But, that's only for the first 36.6 miles while Volt is on EV. So in reality to actually travel 100 miles in the Volt--with it fully charged, mind you--you need:

    Volt: $1.98 in electricity for first 36.6 miles. Remaining miles at premium and its gas-economy = $7.44. Total $9.42.

    Prius: two gallons @ $3.80. Total $7.60

    In fact, if you compare a fully charged Volt to a Prius, as soon as you cross the 56 mile mark in the journey the Prius begins to cost less to operate.

    That is incredible. Incredibly bad news for the Volt. The more I learn about these EV cars (it and the Leaf) the less I like them. Granted, CR will get more mileage range as they hit the summer on EV, but there's no reason to think the battery won't suffer from aging like in the Leaf and affect initial EV range (and we already know that as the Prius battery ages the total mileage drops very little). The more I read about these cars the more they seem like gimmicks. Even ignoring the inflated purchase prices they have so much in the way of drawbacks. The main one for the Volt being its egregious EPA numbers when running on gasoline.
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    cycle11111 New Member

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    It would be worthwhile listening to the last What Drives Us podcast that had Chelsea Sexton talking about her Volt experience. She is getting over 100mpg+ average when you factor in how she drives day to day - combination of short, med and long trips. She also referenced that when going to Vegas which clearly depleted the battery she got 44mpg. She also says the Volt is definitely still gen 1 but that it performs very well and has very good fit and finish. Her words not mine and I bet she has more experience on hybrids and EVs than most of us.

    Also Russell Frost asked her point blank what would you prefer a Volt or Leaf and she said both as they are a two car family and each does things the other doesn't.
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    cycle11111 New Member

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    Not true it depends. Did you travel 38 miles that day and plug in so next 56 miles are still cheaper as little or no gas will get used. Net net your avg mpg depends on your avg profile on a tank of gas so person one's mileage will be different than person two and so on
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    Skoorbmax Senior Member

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    The gist, though, is that as an EV car its operating cost for fuel is only a little less than Prius, and when you're not on EV--which is liable to be an awful lot because its range is not very good--your operating costs are quite a lot higher. All this and you pay through the nose for the car anyway, and it only holds four and it doesn't heat the cabin very quickly, etc.
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    Flaninacupboard Senior Member

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    Interesting reading, some real challenges for all phevs and evs in california...
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    sipnfuel New Member

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    Well there it is straight from the mouth of Dan Edmunds

    I kinda came to the conclusion that an EV wasn't right for me given electricity prices here in CA. However, if the Prius PHV claims on electrical efficiency are true (0.24 kWh per mile vs 0.36 kWh per mile for the Volt) and gas prices keep going up, then it could work.

    It's T-Shirt weather here in CA (when isn't it), so I don't think March numbers should be too different, but we should see a slight improvement.

    Can't wait for the March update.
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    Felt Active Member

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    Elsewhere we read that relatively few Volt's have been sold. OK, one went to Edmunds; GE previously announced they would purchase many (number not recalled). I wonder if GE has begun their purchase? The number in private hands could be even fewer???

    Chevy's new add is ...... Volt, the extended range electric. Many years ago I heard that the key to advertising is to "trumpet" your shortcomings. In the case of the Volt, electric range is certainly not what was claimed, and the ICE seems to be falling short as well, at least in terms of fuel efficiency and emissions.
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    bretaz Member

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    I agree. For me, I just can't seem to get past the price. While the numbers are interesting, and sad for GM, I just keep thinking about the price anytime I think of the Volt.

    I consider myself middle class, and I could never imagine paying that for this car. Do you think price alone stops very many people dead in their tracks, not even able to look at specs, features, abilities, etc. on this car?
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    Skoorbmax Senior Member

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    Definitely. And those it doesn't stop cold the specs do the stopping for them.

    In fact I'm calling it, the demise of this car unless GM can get the price massively, violently down. I don't even care where gas goes with this. If GM cannot murder the price on this it's going to be cancelled after a few years at the most. You know you have a crisis on your hands when after a $7500 tax credit the thing is still ridiculously expensive.

    I put good odds on the $7500 subsidy being in place more or less and extended (as it is currently finite in size) but even with it kept I think GM needs to kill a good $8-10k to get more than a handful of people to seriously consider it. That would bring it within range of the Prius and as it is in its current form I don't think it gives premium utility so should not command a premium price.

    Honestly at this point the Volt is just a continuation of R&D efforts with its insane cost, more like a public Beta test than anything else.
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    gwmort Active Member

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    Not really, the lease is exactly $1 more a month than the Leaf for a much better vehicle.
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    UsedToLoveCars Member

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    I read their long term blog all the time and I'm not seeing many updates from them on the volt.

    maybe nobody wants to drive it?

    then again, those guys seem more interested in their raptor and their z06
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    Skoorbmax Senior Member

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    The Leaf is also in a poor position for sales. But the Volt requires $3k+ out of pocket and $350/month. I don't think I need to state how much more that is than a Prius lease (a ton more). And it's only not more than this because the $7500 credit trims off the top, otherwise it would be more like $450.
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    cwerdna Senior Member

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    For those in California, Leaf buyers can get a $5000 CA tax rebate, on top of the $7500 Federal tax credit.
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    Skoorbmax Senior Member

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    That is sweet for Leaf buyers, probably a silly use of tax money, though.
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    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    And the simple lease calculators I've tried say the Volt lease should be $800+.
    The latest info on the Smart fortwo EV has the lease payment at $599.
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    Felt Active Member

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    Any idea when the March report will be revealed?
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    Felt Active Member

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    Was this a hoax?
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    gwmort Active Member

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    What would your calculators show for a $32,000 prius 5?

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