Welcome to PriusChat

We'd love to have you join our community and participate in the conversation! Sign up for FREE today.

Sign Up

Electronic anti-corrosion module: does it really work?

Discussion in 'Gen II Prius Accessories & Modifications' started by navguy12, Feb 1, 2012.

Social Buttons

  1. navguy12

    navguy12 Member

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2012
    Messages:
    189
    Likes Received:
    29
    Location:
    Batawa Ontario
    Your Vehicle Year:
    2008 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    Sorry if I`m repeating a thread here, but I`m faced with a choice:

    • employ tested and familiar rust spray (Krown, Rust Check, et al) with downside of goop and film over windows after a wash or rain, or
    • an electronic module that induces a very low current into the vehicle that is supposed to suppress corrosion (as per pipe-line industry technique)
    Anyone use the electronic version on their Prius...


    Thanks
    Cheers
    Mike
  2. KK6PD

    KK6PD _ . _ . / _ _ . _

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2008
    Messages:
    3,815
    Likes Received:
    750
    Location:
    Los Angeles
    Your Vehicle Year:
    2008 Prius
    Model:
    Five
    Is this what you are referring to...

    [FONT=arial, Arial, Helvetica][FONT=Arial, Arial, Helvetica]Capacitive coupling and the corrosion process[/FONT]


    Rust, like fire, is produced by a chemical reaction known as oxidation. In the oxidation process metal combines with oxygen to form rust or corrosion. In a fire the oxidation process (a substance combining with oxygen) happens much quicker so essentially metal objects when exposed to the Earth's atmosphere are doing a slow burn.

    (Remember opposites attract and likes repel and in chemical reactions oxygen tends to have a negative charge and thus seeks to combine with positively charged particles whether metallic or otherwise)


    CounterAct slows this reaction and thus minimizes the age old menace of rust. CounterAct rust protection employs a principle of electrochemistry to slow the oxidation process," that a polarizing force applied to the double layer of charge that forms adjacent to a reacting electrode surface during the course of a corrosion reaction can decrease the rate of charge transport across the double layer, which can result in a reduction of the overall reaction rate."

    At a charged surface a layer of oppositely charged particles tends to accumulate parallel to the surface charge so that if the surface of a metal body is being charged negatively (as in the case of the CounterAct method) a positive charge accumulates adjacent to the negative surface charge.

    This is a well known phenomenon which actually presents a problem for analytical chemists as particles in solution essentially are presented with a barrier in the form of the double layer and prevented from reaching a reference electrode. This property therefore serves to create understated values for the particle's actual concentrations.

    CounterAct employs capacitive coupling utilizing our capacitive coupler pads as the positive half of a capacitor in which the paint on a metal body being protected serves as the dielectric insulator between our capacitive coupler and the metal body which essentially becomes the negative half of the capacitor and receives the negative electrostatic surface charge and its corrosion protection benefits

    [​IMG][​IMG]

    CounterAct's capacitive couplers act like the positive half of a capacitor allowing the metal surface of your vehicle to become the negative half. The couplers attach with a peel and stick aircraft grade adhesive.


    What this means in laymen's terms is this :

    A metal surface tends to have a positive electrical charge in an area where rust is occurring ( the surface becomes a positively charged electrode with a reacting surface).


    Through CounterAct's patented and proprietary process of capacitive coupling, a pulsed measured negative charge is capacitively induced on the metal surface. In employing our exclusive capacitive coupling technique, CounterAct uses state of the art "smart technology" to deliver this pulsed electrostatic charge to the metal surface and create a powerful enough varying electrostatic field to create a periodic inversion in the normal polarization of this double layer.

    CounterAct applies this polarizing force (giving the metal surface a negative electrostatic surface charge rather than a positive charge) and in turn creating an off-setting positive layer of charge off the metal surface in an adjacent area. Thus exactly reversing the normal expected arrangement of the electrical double layer. This inversion of the double layer serves to greatly reduce the rate of oxygen transport to the metal surface and thus also greatly reduce the rate of corrosion as evidenced by our history of rigorous laboratory and field tests.


    CounterAct Electronic Rust Protection and Paint Chips
    [​IMG]

    Given that an electrolyte has dielectric properties, the electrostatic field between D0 and D1 is greater than the field between D0 and Df1. It follows that because of the increased negative surface charge on the metal that the polarization and positive charge concentration is greater adjacent to the metal electrode surface D0 than at the surface of the paint coating Df0.


    Should a paint chip occur exposing bare metal on a protected vehicle or structure, the nature of our electrostatic corrosion control devices affords protection to the exposed metal in the body.

    Although the dielectric insulating properties of the paint are absent in a paint chip or holiday what tends to occur is a very light oxide layer forms and stabilizes on the exposed metal and together with any electrolyte present serves in lieu of the paint as the dielectric. (Remember there are no perfect conductors nor perfect insulators so an electrolyte does exhibit both of these properties)

    As this layer is much thinner than the adjacent paint, capacitance is increased at the chip site and thus the negative surface charge is enhanced as well.

    Thus paint chips will "skin over forming a bandage" and are protected as well.

    Essentially The CounterAct process applies stronger electrostatic negative charge and thus more corrosion protection to gaps or chips in the painted surface than on the continuous painted surface. Just where it is needed most.

    Not only is the negative electrostatic surface charge greater in these areas but the corresponding adjacent positive charge layer of the double layer is drawn closer as well. (see above illustration) As this happens an area is created outside the positive layer that is relatively deficient in positively charged particles. By diffusion then, the positive layer of particles tends to bleed off to this area above the metal body creating further interference and an additional barrier to the oxygen transport process.

    Additionally as well as protecting paint chips with more charge, it is common knowledge that an electrostatic charge will concentrate to a greater extent on sharp edges and angles rather than flat surfaces, again delivering the most protection to the area's that need it most. ( For those of you who are "electronically inclined" simply visualize how the charge vectors must reside to see why this is so)

    (Remember opposite attract and likes repel and in chemical reactions oxygen tends to a negative charge and thus seeks to combine with positively charged particles whether metallic or otherwise)

    [FONT=arial, Arial, Helvetica][FONT=Arial, Arial, Helvetica]BEWARE OF CounterAct COUNTERFEITERS![/FONT]



    [​IMG]
    Don't be fooled by CounterAct imitators! CounterAct is the original capacitively coupled electrostatic corrosion control system
    with two decades of successful use in the world's harshest corrosive conditions.




    If imitation really is the sincerest form of flattery than we at CounterAct should feel most flattered! Frankly we're not flattered and we doubt the sincerity of our imitators as well as their basic honesty and professional and scientific competence.
    Regularly we receive communication from people that invariably begin with "I have seen something that looks or makes claims very similar to CounterAct but......"
    Well nothing else is CounterAct!
    Our imitators have come and gone leaving a trail of bankruptcies and defunct internet websites. Some have tried to copy the CounterAct look with look-alike enclosures in either color anodized aluminum or plastic. Others try to copy CounterAct's terminology. We are even aware of an independent test conducted on one of our own CounterAct products where the results were used to provide a veneer of credibility to one of these useless counterfeit devices!
    Quite often we hear about alleged electronic rust protection products being offered for the passenger motor vehicle trade. Typically these alleged "electronic rustproofing" products are attempts at using impressed current cathodic protection, perhaps in combination with sacrificial anodes (mags or zincs), in an above ground or above the waterline application. Impressed current cathodic protection is a well proven technology but like with any well tested technology its limitations are well proven also. So any corrosion engineer worth his salt will tell you that impressed current cathodic protection will not work on above ground or above the waterline applications, whether they are mobile or otherwise, as a relatively abundant and continuous moisture layer is necessary for the process to function. This moisture is present below ground and of course below the waterline but not out in the open air. These products may be marketed as electronic rustproofing, electronic rust prevention, electronic rust protection, electronic rust control or as an electronic rust inhibiter. All of these terms are used legitimately by corrosion professionals but again we caution that the use of impressed current cathodic protection for motor vehicles is a mis-application of the technology.
    Typically one of these "electronic rustproofing" products may be marketed under a myriad of names and sold for a premium price through unsuspecting auto dealers all the while the marketer also sells the product directly to the consumer at a bargain basement price (generally under U.S.$100.00 see below). Unlike the typical firm supplying traditional electronic rustproofing to the petroleum and maritime industries, the companies supplying most of these passenger vehicle electronic rustproofing products do not have a scientific background nor do they have scientists and engineers on staff as is the case with a typical corrosion engineering or consulting firm. In fact most of these companies are nothing but marketing firms with no scientific credibility at all!
    There are some unscrupulous individuals with schemes to separate you from your hard-earned cash and who are taking advantage of the internet and trying to exploit the success and credibility of the patented and proprietary CounterAct process for their fly by night marketing programs. These products typically are built with cheap labor in under-developed nations with no relevant science or engineering personnel consulted in either the design, development or implementation.
    Most of these products are cheapened versions of traditional impressed current cathodic systems or attempts to use maritime products such as sacrificial anodes (mags or zincs) that (as explained above) simply fail to work in open air environments.
    Remember if you have a buried or submerged application in mind and a legitimate need for design or implementation of an impressed current cathodic protection system, that these systems typically require services provided by specialized engineering consulting firms. It is a wise precaution to always check on the educational and professional background of companies and individuals offering such services. Should your corrosion problem involve buried or submerged objects, we at CounterAct are always happy to refer inquiries to a reputable corrosion engineering firm that provides traditional impressed current cathodic protection services when your application lends itself to this more traditional process.
    As to these "CounterAct counterfeits" we would certainly never recommend that you purchase one of these products. But if for some unfathomable reason you feel the desire to do so, "Don't forget to haggle!"
    Just like in a Middle-Eastern bazaar these alleged "electronic rustproofing" products are sold for what the seller can get and the very same product can range from $14.95 to$1200.00 and sell under a myriad of names. If we were forced to buy one of these we would recommend the $14.95 price. At this price one would suffer neither great loss of money nor face and the unscrupulous internet marketers could still double their money!


    The above was copied from the following URL...
    CounterAct on Motor Vehicles
    [/FONT]
    [/FONT]
    I just find them, not endorse 'em! Does this really work? I understand the Zinc andode on the ship hull thing, but turning the car into a big rolling capacitor, not so sure! What about the metal that is not properly grounded on the car, does the capacitive value change, thus rendering it ineffective?
    Good question!
    1 person likes this.
  3. cnschult

    cnschult Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2008
    Messages:
    769
    Likes Received:
    78
    Location:
    Michigan
    Your Vehicle Year:
    2005 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    I saw on history channel that large sea vessels, including battleships, air craft carriers and oil rigs, use strategically placed replaceable sacrificial plates that are designed to rust in lieu of the rest of the ship.

    Modern Jags, Acura NSX and the Audi A8 all use aluminum space frame, of course they all use it to save weight, being rust proof is just an added bonus. Less expensive cars just galvanize their steel with zinc to prevent rusting.

    If anything you should be more concerned with your front rotors rusting. Under conservative driving I hardly use my conventional brakes at all, and that causes major rusting on my rotors, traditionally the rotors last the life of the vehicle and people replace the pads regularly. But nowadays rotors are much thinner in order to save weight and increase fuel economy, it feels as though my original pads will last the life of my car and I have to replace the rotors regularly, so I'm gonna be on the lookout for rotors made from aluminum or titanium (ceramic is too costly and not needed for non racing conditions)

    I wouldn't mind a high voltage current for my windshield wipers arms to give meter maids something to think about before giving me another ticket :)

    Even with the salt used to melt winter snow I've never heard of a modern car being rusted to an unsafe level (Hyundai's newest factories actually dip the entire unibody in a rust inhibitor). Metal can only rust to a certain depth so yes it can ruin body panels but not the frame itself. Coastal towns get it the worst as waves cause the air to be high in salty water. Rather than paint their houses every other year, some just give in and get steel siding and/or steel roofs that are designed to rust to a certain depth and than it can rust no further.

    How about once a month you send your car through a good carwash with a high pressure underbody wash. That should delay any rusting going on down there.
  4. KK6PD

    KK6PD _ . _ . / _ _ . _

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2008
    Messages:
    3,815
    Likes Received:
    750
    Location:
    Los Angeles
    Your Vehicle Year:
    2008 Prius
    Model:
    Five


    Quite possibly one of the best ideas heard yet in 2012! :D
  5. qbee42

    qbee42 My other car is a boat

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2006
    Messages:
    18,046
    Likes Received:
    2,952
    Location:
    Northern Michigan
    Your Vehicle Year:
    2006 Prius
    Electronic anti-corrosion systems are common on boats and bigger vessels. In this situation corrosion is caused by electrolysis between dissimilar metals. The metals become the electrodes and the water becomes the electrolyte. Essentially the boat is turned into a big battery, where the anode dissolves and transfers to the cathode.

    To avoid this problem, one commonly uses sacrificial anodes. For sea water they are made of zinc. For fresh water we use magnesium. The zinc or magnesium anodes are more electronegative than the other metals, so they dissolve first; that's why they are called "sacrificial".

    The electronic form of corrosion protection applies a controlled voltage to counter the voltage from the dissimilar metals. It works, but it needs to be connected to both metals. This is where the car version fails. So you electrify your car; where does the other electrode attach? To the air? I don't think so, even though that is what the seller wants you to believe with their claims of capacitance.

    This is yet another cash-draining sucker product. Save your money for something more useful, like beer.

    Tom
  6. qbee42

    qbee42 My other car is a boat

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2006
    Messages:
    18,046
    Likes Received:
    2,952
    Location:
    Northern Michigan
    Your Vehicle Year:
    2006 Prius


    Commonly done in the old days, when Model T coils were easy to get. The Model T ignition coils had a multivibrator, so they would produce a continuous high voltage. It wasn't uncommon to attach one to the frame to provide a nasty surprise for unsuspecting friends.

    Tom
  7. cnschult

    cnschult Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2008
    Messages:
    769
    Likes Received:
    78
    Location:
    Michigan
    Your Vehicle Year:
    2005 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    yea my neighbor has two models Ts, one restored, the other begging to be restored, another nasty prank to do with the Model T is ask your friend to crank start it and laugh when he breaks his wrist.
  8. KK6PD

    KK6PD _ . _ . / _ _ . _

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2008
    Messages:
    3,815
    Likes Received:
    750
    Location:
    Los Angeles
    Your Vehicle Year:
    2008 Prius
    Model:
    Five
    I remember when I was a kid, Disneys Wonderful World of Color had a movie called Kilroy Was Here. In the movie the young kids who make friends with Kilroy learn how to tale a large coffee can, add a spark plug, dig a hole in the ground, add a couple of drops or cups of gasoline, put the cover on the can bury it in the hole covering it with dirt, and you guessed it, connect it to a Model T spark coil. the result, as you can imagine was quite spectacular. :eek:
    It was so detailed that my best friend and I got 2 coils, multiple coffee cans and thus set about setting "The Summer of Coffee Can Landmines" around the neighborhood! It was one hell of a summer. They worked wonderfully, and amazingly, none of our parents objected!
    SHOCKER THERE!:eek:
    Sadly and tragically, the other kids from 2 blocks over wanted to top us, their solution was to PACK gunpowder in a 2" Pipe. Not so smart, the resulting explosion killed one, maimed the hell out of the other kid. Then the parents started to figure out that were just short of becoming EOD Techs or worse unless they stepped in, well for about 6 months, then back to "normal"!:D
    Daves09prius likes this.
  9. cnschult

    cnschult Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2008
    Messages:
    769
    Likes Received:
    78
    Location:
    Michigan
    Your Vehicle Year:
    2005 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    ha!! nowadays that first prank you mentioned might get you a visit from a local cop, but that second prank would get you a visit from FBI, ATF & Homeland Security . . . . thanks Patriot Act
  10. fuzzy1

    fuzzy1 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2009
    Messages:
    7,110
    Likes Received:
    1,805
    Location:
    Western Washington
    Your Vehicle Year:
    2012 Prius
    Model:
    Three


    Does a marine sacrificial anode work when the car is immersed in beer?
    2 people like this.
  11. KK6PD

    KK6PD _ . _ . / _ _ . _

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2008
    Messages:
    3,815
    Likes Received:
    750
    Location:
    Los Angeles
    Your Vehicle Year:
    2008 Prius
    Model:
    Five


    It depends on the beer! A Guinness Stout will protect the whole car, while a can of "Ralphs Bar Code Beer", not so much!
    Can I have a side of Zinc Pretzel Anodes please? :D
  12. qbee42

    qbee42 My other car is a boat

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2006
    Messages:
    18,046
    Likes Received:
    2,952
    Location:
    Northern Michigan
    Your Vehicle Year:
    2006 Prius
    Another nasty form of marine corrosion occurs in marinas when bad wiring comes into play. When connected to shore power, earth ground is connected to the ground on the boat. Often the boat ground is connected to metal objects that make contact with the water; items such as bronze valves, water intakes, and propellers. Stray voltages from bad wiring can cause electrical current to leak through the water from one boat to another as it seeks a better ground path. This stray current, unfortunately, will electroplate the metal on one boat by removing it from the other. A very large amount of corrosion can occur in a short period.

    I sometimes walk around the marina with a clamp-on ammeter. I snap it over the shore power cord of each boat. I theory the reading should be zero, since any current going into a boat via the black wire should come out of a boat via the white wire. If I see any current, I know we have trouble brewing.

    Tom
  13. navguy12

    navguy12 Member

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2012
    Messages:
    189
    Likes Received:
    29
    Location:
    Batawa Ontario
    Your Vehicle Year:
    2008 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    Well, I`m going ahead and using cans of Rust Check, removing body plugs and spraying in the doors and the chassis ( I have a lift that lets me do that easily)....
  14. Simtronic

    Simtronic Member

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2009
    Messages:
    169
    Likes Received:
    15
    Location:
    Surrey, UK
    Your Vehicle Year:
    2005 Prius
    Model:
    II


    I agree it is probably a lot of snake oil but I do remember positively earthed cars rusted far quicker and many converted to negative earth to prevent it, also if you leave a battery out in the rain it is always the positive that corrodes and the negative remains black
  15. kenmce

    kenmce High Voltage Member

    Joined:
    May 4, 2004
    Messages:
    965
    Likes Received:
    118
    Location:
    NY
    Your Vehicle Year:
    2012 Prius
    Model:
    Plug-in Advanced


    You can use a sacrificial anode in a hot water heater too. My impression is that this system works well for things that are submerged in water, not so much for things in the air.




    Just replaced mine.



    Aluminum would want to warp when it got hot. Ti would be impossibly expensive.




    Several of mine have.



    My old Dodge would disagree.



    There is a special steel that does this and can be used for a building. Doubt they use it for cars.
  16. nai1ed

    nai1ed 2006 Prius

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2013
    Messages:
    51
    Likes Received:
    6
    Location:
    Maine
    Your Vehicle Year:
    2006 Prius
    Model:
    II
    I've heard of people painting the under body and frame with aluminum paint. Not sure how well it works, but one guy painted his exhaust with aluminum paint and said it never rusted in 20 years.
  17. bobeast

    bobeast Junior Member

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2006
    Messages:
    38
    Likes Received:
    16
    Pair this up with the latest electric super-charger unit and you've got yourself a corvette eating monster that won't rust.

    No this will not work. Your car sits on four big pieces of rubber insulating it from ground. Don't buy into the pseudoscience on the site.
  18. Mike500

    Mike500 Interessen-Gemeinschaft Prius

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2012
    Messages:
    2,233
    Likes Received:
    566
    Location:
    Upstate, SC
    Your Vehicle Year:
    2012 Prius v wagon
    Model:
    Two
    The quality of the rustproofing job depends on the applicator.

    Most all of the commercial rustproofing companies used a warranty to cover poor applications.

    I have rustproof all of my cars since 1970, and NONE has rusted through. Then, again, I spend over 30-35 hours getting every nook and cranny on the car that is likely to rust.

    Currently, I took my new Prius"v" and applied clear rustproofing into most all of the inside cavities and the cavities inside the frame members as well as the entire underbody. Three week later, I applied undercoating to most all of the underbody components. The clear rustproofing had dried, before the under coating was applied.


    No commercial rustproofing company can afford this amount of labor and make a profit. Most all of the cars that I have owned were in my possession for 10-15 years. None had rusted through anywhere.
Similar Threads: Electronic anti-corrosion
Forum Title Date
Gen III 2010+ Prius Accessories and Modifications Electronic shift switch & center console lighting... Jul 30, 2014
Gen III 2010+ Prius Audio and Electronics 2014 Electronic quirks Jul 14, 2014
Private Sales ELD Electronic Button Shifter Jul 7, 2014
Prius c Care, Maintenance and Troubleshooting Electronic Window didn't want to move. May 16, 2014
Gen III 2010+ Prius Accessories and Modifications Anyone have this stage 10 electronic shifter on there Prius ? Apr 16, 2014