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    NortTexSalv04Prius Active Member

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    If only one person does the install for a 4Kw enginer kit. How long would (time wise) would it take to finish and included the break in and test phase.??? I also understand getting the 100 pound battery box would be a limiting factor too.
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    dan2l 2014 Prius v wagon

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    Hi NortTex,
    I strongly caution against this. The problem is not the amount of time. The problem is that there are many unknown defects in what is sent to the user. First you need to inventory the parts and then wait a week to get the parts that they forgot the first time. Then you need to test everything and troubleshoot your way through the problems to find which part is defective. Then you get to wait a week again to get that part replaced.

    I have installed or worked on 8 systems and every one had a different problem. I have a full set of spares. I always planned a week between getting the system and having the user bring the car to do the install. During that time I fully test the system. Then a first time, one person install will take 12 hour work over the next week.

    It is well worth the cost of having an installer do this. Also you need to plan for 3 warranty failures during the first year of use. This means weeks of down time for each warranty failure unless you have an installer with spare parts to troubleshoot and replace the failed parts.

    Thanks,
    Dan
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    NortTexSalv04Prius Active Member

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    Hold on
    I understand fedex,ups, and various carriers can short your order and I am well familiar with that. Additionally, I understood enginer had some quality issues(intial units) which for current time have been address. So what eight parts do you have in case of failure. Also list all the failures you are making vague reference too
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    Stocktonmanners New Member

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    I did not have the luxury of installer anywhere near my city, and thus had no choice but to install the kit myself.

    It took about a day going through each step very carefully. I would recommend you spend a bunch of time beforehand watching the many videos posted online and read the instructions over many times. It will make the job go smoother, and be very careful!! 240v can kill you.

    one downside of a DIY install for me has been the countless hours spent reading up on the kit so that if a problem arises I will be able to identify it before any damage to the kit occurs. I have only had a BMS failure (version 3.1), other than that the kit has been very reliable. I would recommend looking over all the parts before the install for any defects. Once you have installed I would recommend you check your battery balance frequently and send your SD card data to Engineer to verify.

    Thanks,
    Stockton
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    dan2l 2014 Prius v wagon

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    Hello NortTex,
    You are misinformed. Enginer is still having, and will continue to have, Quality issues. This is much, much more than the initial units. As an example, The last new converter I got was just this December. It is pumping too much power into the Prius and causing regular Error codes. This is on a component made over 2 years after the initial units.

    The reference to failures is vague because there are too many different types if failures to list. Every system seems to have a new and different failure. You need to be an expert at troubleshooting to find the actual failed parts.

    I did not say eight parts. I said I have a full set of spares. That is I can replace anything in the system that fails using the spares that are in my garage. Further and more important. I can swap in known good parts to see what makes a problem come and go for troubleshooting. Every installer needs a full set of spares.

    Thanks,
    Dan
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    NortTexSalv04Prius Active Member

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    Once again HOLD ON
    I am neither defending Enginer nor advocating your response.! The initial Enginer BMS was problematic and their where installs where DTC codes where problematic. You raise more questions than you actually respond to aka answer questions with questions. There are several diy installs that appear to be clean and with non failures or problematic.
    If you have too many failures "different" maybe more is going on than meets the eye. This I do know about Enginer upgrade bms yes
    upgrade converter yes
    Quality control componets and enginer support somewhat spotty
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    seilerts Battery Curmudgeon

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    You can have:

    Poor connections inside one or both of the battery packs.
    Sense/balance wires for BMS are JST-XH connectors which are not appropriate for automotive.
    DC converter runs too hot in the summer and will scale back duty cycle (very important in TX!).
    Poor quality of components/assembly in DC converter (relays stick, current/voltage calibration incorrect, components loose).
    Blown fuse in the charger and/or charger stops working.
    Bad rocker switch for the dash.
    Not sure about the latest BMS but every version till now has had problems.

    Dan2l is one of the most experienced Enginer users/installers in the world. If he says there are still problems, then take what he says seriously, and adjust your expectations accordingly.
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    chenyj Member

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    I have to point out that some of the advisers are talking about their experience in the past over a year ago. Enginer has been working hard to address the quality issue and has been standing by our product.

    We have released version 6 of our kit with much more reliable components three months ago. Although, it is still not perfect, the defective rate has been controlled under 5%.

    The new BMS is much stable. The new converter runs much cooler without thermal cut off. And people can easily access their spare tire in the trunk. There are tons of improvements that some of the advisers didn't know or reluctant to mention.

    I hope people could give advice based on more recent facts and more recent experience.
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    lopezjm2001 Test guinea pig #9

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    My advice is not based on the Enginer past, present or future problems. It is based on the fact that PIS does not have a bottle neck DC Converter which can only put out 16amps at the most. Along with the PIS PHEV being able to do EV mode at highway speeds and still have ICE enabled should the load be too high. These facts make the PIS kit very desirable despite the fact that there may be very few PIS installs around. When you compare the price of PIS DIY PHEV kits with the Enginer PHEV DIY kits the PIS kits are attractive considering what they have to offer.

    Enginer PHEV DIY system 8kwh - US$5495
    Enginer PHEV DIY system 4kwh - US$3495
    Complete PIS DIY 4KWH kit - US$4500
    Complete PIS DIY 10 KW kit, Prius Gen 2 or 3 - US$8,500

    I am sure that all after market PHEV kits have problems. I am sure that if Jack did not have a Enginer kit installed in his Prius he would seriously consider getting a PIS PHEV kit.
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    mrbigh Prius Absolutum Dominium

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    still there is a lot of bad taste in people's mouth about the reliability and quality of enginer's products
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    ericbecky Hybrid Battery Hero

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    mrbigh,
    Even with the bad taste in some people's mouths, everyone can agree that Enginer has been standing behind their products and issuing replacements whenever there are issues during their warranty period.
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    mrbigh Prius Absolutum Dominium

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    I do not dispute your point, through the time it has been, Enginer had replaced many parts and they stud by their product
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    Rebound Senior Member

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    If you are serious about your business, you need better engineering and quality control than that! In my business we count defect rates as failed parts per million, and the target number is THREE. Not three per hundred, three per million.

    I believe in what you're doing and I wish you well, but your quoted defect rates are utterly unacceptable. There are a lot of Prii on the road and you still have a lot of business opportunity, but from what you're saying, your management needs to adopt a much more rigorous approach to quality.

    People ask me why I ordered a Plug-in Prius and not a Chevy Volt. I'd love to buy a Volt and support American workers. There's one reason why I won't: Quality. Period.

    There is a very simple saying in my business: The cost of quality is zero. The owner of your business (and you) need to think that through and understand it.
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    cproaudio Speedlock Overrider

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    You're joking right? 3 per million? There are roughly 2 million Prii wold in the world since 1997 give or take 100k. You're telling me that only 6 Prius has ever failed? Take harddrive for example. What's the fail rate of harddrives within the first 3 years? From personal experience at least 75%. I am curious as to what kind of business are you in.
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    miscrms Plug Envious Member

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    Honestly I think there is still plenty of space in the market for a variety of approaches. The design that Enginer came up with is very clever in its simplicity, and disruptive in its cost. They've put a lot of pressure on the rest of the industry to get more competitive. The low current output is not going to be a great fit for everyone, but is a perfectly reasonable approach particularly for those with longer and or higher speed commutes. Sure, driving all electric is sexy, but if you've depleted your battery by the end of the commute it doesn't really matter how you got there. And given the price of batteries all electric on a long commute is not economically feasible for many. The PIS system looks great, and will likely fit another need in the market for those whose driving benefits from a higher power output. Fit and finish looks to be better too. But it still costs more, and given the reality of conversions still struggling to reach payback parity cost is still important to all but the most dedicated and/or economically independent converters. PIS is probably a better fit for my needs, and the price is getting close to being tempting but not quite low enough to keep me from considering DIY. In my mind Enginer represents a middle ground in terms of both price and quality between a polished commercial kit, and a pure DIY.

    I hear you on quality. Obviously its important. But for a good number of enthusiasts, the chance to get in on testing a new approach sooner rather than later, and cheap and a bit rough around the edges vs. polished and more expensive is still an attractive proposition. I sympathize with the frustrations many have experienced with failures, but also appreciate Enginer's efforts to bring a new product out that pushes the industry along as well as them giving the enthusiast community the opportunity to help test and refine it.

    In the end all these approaches are moving us further down the path of greater fuel conservation, energy independence, emissions reduction etc and I applaud that!

    Rob
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    Rsingh New Member

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    I just has a 4KW Enginer system installed into 06 Prius. The guys that did it (Greencycle design group) out of Winston Salem, NC were very knowledgeable and did a great job. I had thought I could do it myself, but quickly realized it was worth the extra $500 to get it done correctly. There are many things I would not have thought about like recalibrating the DC-DC charger with correct voltage and amps- not in the instructions etc. etc. Thus, my advice would to pay a good installer. Jack at Enginer has also been extremely gracious with my questions. No triangle of death or any warnings yet! It seems the car has adapted well to the new juice and weight. With regards to the performance I have averaged a measly 70 mpg average for the week driving about 35 miles each way to and from work up and down these Appalachian mountains. However, my driving style has changed as well and I am more aware of the gas pedal etc. Today, the system got a pathetic 80+ mpg in town over 22 miles:) No its not 100mpg, but I'm not greedy. Plus, it made a good conversation point with a cute 2011 Prius owner at the gas station:) I invited her to take a look at my battery pack:)


    Another option I'm considering is getting the power inverter (and possibly solar panels) to act as a back up power source at home.
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    seilerts Battery Curmudgeon

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    Rsingh, can you charge at work? That is the ideal use of your kit. If you can keep your SoC at 5 or more bars then you will preferentially use electric energy for propulsion and get the best mpg. You are doing well to get 70 MPG over 35 miles each way. That's only 250 gallons of gas per commute year, compared to about 400 (at 44 mpg) for the stock Prius. About the only way to get 100+ in a Gen II is to do most miles in <34 mph EV mode.

    A good installer that will stand their work is worth the weight of the pack in gold.
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    Rsingh New Member

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    Hi daze77, yes there is a charging station at work and electric is free until July! I like the system, however some companies seek to promise 100 mpg . I am not sure if that would happen in these mountains. Traders are some climbs that require a lot of power to haul up them. I wonder ifMG2 motor on Prius can actually pull the car by itself up a steep gradient?
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    lopezjm2001 Test guinea pig #9

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    The load required to climb really steep hills is too high for MG2 so EV will be kicked out. However the Prius will still use some electric energy in combination with the ICE to climb steep hills in blended mode.
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    NortTexSalv04Prius Active Member

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    YOU LEAVE A BAD TASTE IN MY MOUTH. I have read your rants and ramble on several threads besides this one. MY QUESTION TO YOU IS UNLESS YOU HAVE FIRST HAND EXPERIENCES TO SHARE WHY ARE YOU ALWAYS MAKING NEGATIVE POSTS?? PLUS DO NOT GIVE A PRETENSE TO SPEAK FOR OTHERS AKA "PEOPLE'S"

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