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    adric22 Ev and Hybrid Enthusiast

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    Okay, I finally have all of the components for my Enginer kit for my 2002 Prius. However, I've run into a few issues. First, the darned screw-holes didn't line up for the 3000W DC-DC converter. And they weren't off by far enough to drill new holes so I had to enlarge the existing ones. But, that aside, here are the questions I have.

    • The kit is supposed to connect to 12V line on the car that is only on when the ignition switch is on. But the Enginer manual doesn't make any suggestions on where to connect this. Obviously I could use the line going to the cigarette/power adapter. But I'm betting there is a better place, any suggestions? It needs to be under the dash by the steering wheel, since that is where the switch is going to go.
    • A fan with an 18" piece of very stiff plastic hose is included with the kit. Now, I know where the fan is supposed to connect with power, but I can't figure out where the fan mounts because there are no mount holes on the main box anywhere. I suspect the fan goes over the vents on the left side next to the DC-DC converter and there are a few vent-slots there. But where does the giant air-duct go?
    • I received two toggle switches attached to little circuit boards with two LEDs on them. One of them is already inside of a little plastic knock-out, which does not seem to fit my 2002 Prius. (perhaps it goes to a 2004-09?) I'm guessing they just sent me two different kinds but I'm only supposed to use the one that goes to my car?
    • I have the 2Kwh version, but I was under the impression that the box I have would be able to upgrade to a 4Kwh version. However, I've measured and there is not enough space (not by a long shot) for another 4 battery packs to fit in there. Does the 4kwh hour version come in a larger metal box?
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    mrbigh Prius Absolutum Dominium

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    Your best source for answers will be Jack from Enginer.
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    dan2l 2014 Prius v wagon

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    Did you read the installation manual that is on the Enginer Web site? It states on page 10 to connect to H12-2 and H14-31. They provide a splice for doing this and explain how to use that splice in their video that is also on the web site.
    I did hook up to the cigarette/power adapter for temporary testing on my car and it does work fine. But it is much cleaner to use the splice under the dash.

    I would need pictures to understand this.
    fan.jpg
    Here is a picture of my Gen3 kit with the fan in the yellow oval.
    Yes, Pop up one of the panels from your car and mount the switch into it. The other panel in my kit was for a Gen3.
    No. The 4kwhr Batteries are Mottcells the 2kwhr batteries are Thundersky. The Thundersky cells are just a little bigger. If you wanted to convert to 4kwhr and put them all in your box you would need to purchase the full 32cells of the Mottcell type and replace all your Thundersky cells.

    You can see the Mottcells in the picture of my kit.

    Also the Thundersky are 40ah and the Mottcells are 39ah so you would generally not want to combine them into the same battery pack.

    It looks to me like you have an early Kit. The early kits did not have fans and so in Arizona the converter would get hot and turn itself off. After cooling it came back on. They added fans to the ends of the converters and to the side of the box. For the old kit they shipped the new parts but it sounds like they did not put it together to be sure everything fit. In the Winter and with the 2kwhr kit you may not need the big fan. You may want to not worry about putting it in now but save it for if you need it later.

    Hope this helps,
    Dan
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    adric22 Ev and Hybrid Enthusiast

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    Dan, yes thank you for your help. I did not understand what it meant in the manual where it said H12-2, but after re-examining it, I get it now. This is one of the many things I will need to update as I had told Jack that I was going to re-write the install manual for the Gen-1 with new pictures and instructions. But first I have to comprehend the original one before I can do that.

    I want to make sure everything is working first, but I plan to eventually design my own enclosure that places as much of this kit as possible into the spare-tire well. Based on what you said about heat, I will obviously need to take cooling into consideration a little more.

    Also - one more quesiton, I've read a lot of people talking about having trouble properly charging the batteries. Is there anything specific I need to do? I heard people talking about making adjustments to the charger's cut-off threshold but I don't see any adjustments on the charger. I'm afraid to let it charge at this point. How do I know if the batteries are being overcharged?
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    dan2l 2014 Prius v wagon

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    Hi Adric,
    Do you have 2 Chargery DB8 balancers?

    If so,
    The main predictor that a person with no tools would have to SOC during charging is the total voltage.

    The easiest process is to push the button on a each balancer. Look for the total voltage at the end (around 27v). Then add the voltage for the bottom half balancer to the voltage for the top half balancer.

    1. If the total voltage is below 55v then you have some time to go. You will need to record voltage and time for a few charge cycles to know how much time to expect in future charge cycles.

    2. When it gets to 55.4v then you are in the last few minutes. At this point you want to watch closely or just unplug.

    At 55.4v start watching for the d 00XX number to climb. This comes just after the total voltage. Then as the d 00XX number goes up to 200 or so look for the high cell and watch it. Then in the last few minutes you get a cell like "5 3.685". This 3.685v for cell 5 would mean you are 65mv from an alarm so keep watching that cell. By doing this you can get a few minutes advance knowledge that an alarm is coming.

    Also I have seen that charging in the evening with an unplug above 55v and then plugging back in in the morning gives me much less chance of an alarm.

    My data is for a 4kwhr system. The voltages should be the same but your time will be shorter. So watch it closely for the first few charges. Do not leave it unattended until you have some experiance with it. The alarms from the DB8 are not very loud. Also the last voltage climb can come much quicker than the rest.

    Do you have a clamp-on DC ammeter? That would help a lot if you have one.

    Hope this is helpful,
    Thanks,
    Dan
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    adric22 Ev and Hybrid Enthusiast

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    Okay, thanks. I do have a regular volt-meter I can put across the whole thing. But looking at the balancers, I have a pack voltage right ow of 54.47 so I am going to let them charge for a bit. One interesting thing is that the total voltage on each balancer is almost 1 volt difference.
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    dan2l 2014 Prius v wagon

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    A full volt differance is a little high. So it must be about 26.7 and 27.7 for the two balancers.
    Is this at rest or with the charger running?
    What is the highest cell for the balancer that has 27.7v? If you get to 3.75v on any single cell, shut it down.

    Thanks,
    Dan
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    adric22 Ev and Hybrid Enthusiast

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    I honestly don't remember if that was when charging or not, but yes that was about the difference between the two packs.

    [qoute]
    What is the highest cell for the balancer that has 27.7v? If you get to 3.75v on any single cell, shut it down.
    Dan[/QUOTE]

    Okay, well, I had been monitoring the charge and went out there every 15 minutes and it was around 54.5V during charge. But then I went out and checked it the last time (with the volt-meter across the whole pack) and saw it was at 56 volts. So I unplugged the thing. After it sat for about 2 minutes, I checked the voltages. Balancer 1 was reading 27.35 and balancer 2 was reading 27.36 so they seem really close now. As for the cells, the lowest charge on one was 3.389V and the highest charge was 3.429. (this is at rest, like I said) I never checked the voltages when it was charging that last time because I was in a panic to unplug it.

    So why doesn't the charger shut down when it is supposed to? I can't be recharging my pack like this each time, what can I do so that I can just plug the car in at night and be done with it?

    EDIT - I went out 45 mintues later and checked the voltages:

    Total Voltages - 26.90 / 26.85
    1) 3.366 / 3.350
    2) 3.359 / 3.368
    3) 3.366 / 3.353
    4) 3.357 / 3.352
    5) 3.375 / 3.355
    6) 3.363 / 3.351
    7) 3.362 / 3.359
    8) 3.363 / 3.372

    Now, the red lights are still on on the balancers, so I guess that means they are still balancing?
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    MJFrog PHEV Disabled - cold weather

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    Okay, well, I had been monitoring the charge and went out there every 15 minutes and it was around 54.5V during charge. But then I went out and checked it the last time (with the volt-meter across the whole pack) and saw it was at 56 volts. So I unplugged the thing. After it sat for about 2 minutes, I checked the voltages. Balancer 1 was reading 27.35 and balancer 2 was reading 27.36 so they seem really close now. As for the cells, the lowest charge on one was 3.389V and the highest charge was 3.429. (this is at rest, like I said) I never checked the voltages when it was charging that last time because I was in a panic to unplug it.

    So why doesn't the charger shut down when it is supposed to? I can't be recharging my pack like this each time, what can I do so that I can just plug the car in at night and be done with it?[/QUOTE]

    You might want to review thread Enginer PHEV automatic over/under voltage protection
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    dan2l 2014 Prius v wagon

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    Hi adric
    Yes, Everything is normal. Tomorrow you can drive it to discharge.

    I assume you were in a panic because you had alarms. Remember I said "Do not leave it unattended until you have some experiance with it."

    You need to stay right at the balancers and watch the voltages until you get experianced in knowing when they are going to alarm. Leaving them for 15 minutes can allow overcharging that can damage the cells. When you hit the top of the charge things change very quickly.

    I had asked if you have a clamp-on DC ammeter? Do you? If you have this tool it will help a lot. If not then you need to be more careful in whatching the voltages.

    You can contact Jack to get instructions on turning down the Charger. This will help but over time you will still need to be careful until you get the new balancer that Enginer is developing.

    Thanks,
    Dan
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    banshee08 Member

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    Just a thought. Is the 2kwH kit using Thundersky batteries? If so the overcharge point is at like some 4.25V according to the spec sheets. I have been playing around with some 40AH Thundersky batteries in a EV conversion and the voltages ranges are very different from the Motocells in my 8kwH kit. I have seen static voltages of about 3.48 ~ 3.57 in a 96 Cell pack that I was working with. The constant Voltage charging is done at 3.65V for Thundersky..
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    mrbigh Prius Absolutum Dominium

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    Thundersky products are not alike the Mottcels, not they have the same type of internal configuration and exact chemistry.
    Thundersky's are a more reliable and stable product; hence, more money.
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    adric22 Ev and Hybrid Enthusiast

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    Yes, I have thundersky batteries.

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