1. Offline

    mrbigh Prius Absolutum Dominium

    Member Since:
    Sep 6, 2005
    Posts:
    2,310
    Likes Received:
    344
    Location:
    N.Babylon, Long Island, NY
    Your Vehicle Year:
    2012 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Plug-in Base
    I received and email from the desk of the Enginer Team.....
    It seems that the customers are getting out of hand with their complaints and requirements. What would it happen to the common JOE that it's several hours or days away from a "installer" shop.
    This equipment will NOT longer be a DIY Kit for the public as intended.

    Dear mrbigh,

    After the Enginer product was introduced 18 months ago, the product has been improved significantly and sales increase to over 450 units. As sales increase, Enginer is no longer able to support their customers in desirable timely manner.

    Starting February 1st, Enginer will no longer offer the product to end users directly. We will have dealers to distribute the product and service to you. Dealer will set price based on their service offering and living cost index. Our focus will shift to product development, production and quality control as well as supporting our dealers and installers instead of individual customers.

    Thanks again for your support.

    Regards,
    The www.Enginer.us Team.
  2. Offline

    ericbecky Hybrid Battery Hero

    Member Since:
    Mar 12, 2004
    Posts:
    1,018
    Likes Received:
    288
    Location:
    Madison, Wisconsin
    Your Vehicle Year:
    2002 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    Mrbigh,
    Your inferences are interesting. This is not how I read this email.

    Specifically, what makes you think it's not DIY anymore?
    The way I read it, it looks like a dealer could directly sell kits to the public. The dealers would then be able to work with their customers so that customer never has to deal directly with Enginer. There could be some real advantage to that. I would think dealers do not have to do installations, but I suppose many would.

    Personally I think it's a good idea that they focus on product development and quality control.
  3. Offline

    Flaninacupboard Senior Member

    Member Since:
    Apr 25, 2010
    Posts:
    1,295
    Likes Received:
    201
    Location:
    Midlands - UK
    Your Vehicle Year:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    Yeah it's interesting. I can understand it, Enginer wants to make money from developing and selling these things and dealing with emails from hundreds of customers asking questions or reporting problems will take a lot of time. It seems like they have some new customer services staff ( i got an email from someone other than jack!) I hope this also means there's another new improved design about to be released, it's getting really close to where it needs to be.

    I just wonder what happens to those of us who purchased direct and not through an installer? does the local installer now supply me with spares/service or do i continue to deal direct?
  4. Offline

    mrbigh Prius Absolutum Dominium

    Member Since:
    Sep 6, 2005
    Posts:
    2,310
    Likes Received:
    344
    Location:
    N.Babylon, Long Island, NY
    Your Vehicle Year:
    2012 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Plug-in Base
    I guess that the Unknown would have to be uncovered

    " I hope this also means there's another new improved design about to be released, it's getting really close to where it needs to be."
    If this is the case, Enginer will need another 450 new Guinea Pigs for testing the product.
    From Feb 1st, dealers/installer will have liberal prices. Does right Joe....
  5. Offline

    Flaninacupboard Senior Member

    Member Since:
    Apr 25, 2010
    Posts:
    1,295
    Likes Received:
    201
    Location:
    Midlands - UK
    Your Vehicle Year:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    Yes i suppose they will. But given the number of gen3's on the market now they have a pretty big potential customer base that no other PHEV kit can touch. Given one of the key things they are focusing on is quality control i hope the product is about to go mainstream. If they could get a tie-up with just a couple of toyota dealers (because sold in a new car it could qualify for the various credits floating about, and we know they've done some EPA UDDA testing already) they could shift a LOT of units especially now we know the official PHEV won't be out till 2012 or 2013 in some states.
  6. Offline

    caffeinekid Duct Tape Extraordinaire

    Member Since:
    Oct 16, 2010
    Posts:
    331
    Likes Received:
    42
    Location:
    Houston
    Your Vehicle Year:
    2008 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    As a service business owner myself who deals regularly with vendors, I can tell you that until Enginer's QA is up to par on their product, this cannot be a DIY kit AND remain profitable for Enginer. IMO, Jack needs to offer a wholesale price to authorized resellers and let them handle the sales and R&R while he sticks to making sure that resellers can be adequately stocked with good components in a timely manner.
  7. Offline

    dan2l 2014 Prius v wagon

    Member Since:
    Nov 26, 2009
    Posts:
    651
    Likes Received:
    259
    Location:
    Vancouver Wasington
    Your Vehicle Year:
    2014 Prius v wagon
    Model:
    Five
    Enginer changing dealer based sales

    Enginer is not withdrawing customer support and sales. If you take the time to go through all the many, many threads you see that Enginer has been very responsive to customers in the past. I do expect this to continue in the future.

    Enginer has had quality issues but they have always worked to make the customer satisfied.

    The new sales process will start with the customer communicating directly with a dealer so that will improve the personal contact. They will need to work through the details and none of the installers have any information on those details yet.

    Note that Enginer has over 50 installers. In most cases there will be a dealer close to the customers location.

    Thanks,
    Dan
  8. Offline

    cproaudio Speedlock Overrider

    Member Since:
    Jul 7, 2010
    Posts:
    1,677
    Likes Received:
    367
    Location:
    CA
    Your Vehicle Year:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    V
    Since Enginer will not deal with consumers directly, who will support the consumers who bought the kit directly from Enginer and then self installed? Do we have to go through an authorized dealer or installer for defective parts? How will authorized dealers or installers handle defective parts from DIY installers? What about those who self installed the kit but don't have authorized dealers or installers with in driving range?
  9. Offline

    bisco cookie crumbler

    Member Since:
    May 11, 2005
    Posts:
    17,509
    Likes Received:
    2,761
    Location:
    boston
    Your Vehicle Year:
    2012 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Plug-in Base
    as someone who has been interested in diy engineer, it seems to me from reading through most of the threads that engineer has caused most of their own prolems through faulty design, defective and missing product, poor communication and service. if the dealers are any good, this might be a step in the right direction, but it could increase the price as well.
    1 people like this.
  10. Offline

    ericbecky Hybrid Battery Hero

    Member Since:
    Mar 12, 2004
    Posts:
    1,018
    Likes Received:
    288
    Location:
    Madison, Wisconsin
    Your Vehicle Year:
    2002 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    I would suggest that you ask these questions directly to Enginer. Feel free to post the replies.
    1 people like this.
  11. Offline

    adric22 Ev and Hybrid Enthusiast

    Member Since:
    Apr 6, 2009
    Posts:
    636
    Likes Received:
    130
    Location:
    Fort Worth, TX
    Your Vehicle Year:
    Other Hybrid
    Model:
    N/A
    I have seen the product continually improve with each install I do. Typically I get quick responses from customer service (this is usually Jack) and I'm very hopeful for the future. Right now I'm the only installer in the Dallas area and sales here are very slow, I'm sure compared to California. I expect this to increase rapidly over the next year as gas prices will probably start to increase again.

    Since I run a computer business, I know first hand how difficult it is to deal with customer service after-the-sale. For example, I sold several hundred computers on ebay over the month of December. Starting january my inbox, voicemail, and telephone are literally blown up with messages and calls regarding the product. Even though my products have a failure rate below 1% during the 30-day warranty, I still get bombarded with calls from people who just have no idea what they are doing. Imagine the Enginer kit, where people who have no idea what they are doing are expecting to install this in their car and they don't even know where to start. Each and every little problem they are going to call or email to Enginer customer service. I can imagine it would be a nightmare, especially if sales increase, which I have no doubt that it will over the next 12 months.

    I see a lot of new hybrid models popping up and that means more potential business for Enginer. So with this extra time on their hands for development and quality control, here are things I would like to see:
    • Better enclosures designed for other models of vehicles, such as Camry, Civic, Insight, etc.
    • better instructions for installation, especially in vehicles other than the prius
    • new enclosures that might fit in the spare-tire area of some vehicles, such as the civic and camry, leaving more trunk-space open.
    • some level of integration with Prius computer systems, such as the CAN-Bus. That would enable many handy features such as monitoring state-of-charge, or even allowing the use of a Scangauge-II to monitor the enginer kit.
    • better ventilation hoses. Rather than just giving you a hose, it would be great of the hose were to actually fit on the airflow vents in the rear of the car and vent all of the heat there. Also maybe creating an intake hose designed to bring air in from the car's cabin. As it stands right now, my enginer system just feeds itself its own hot-air. Which isn't a problem during the winter, but in the Summer it is.
  12. Offline

    dan2l 2014 Prius v wagon

    Member Since:
    Nov 26, 2009
    Posts:
    651
    Likes Received:
    259
    Location:
    Vancouver Wasington
    Your Vehicle Year:
    2014 Prius v wagon
    Model:
    Five
    Enginer changing dealer based sales

    First, Enginer is not withdrawing customer support and sales. This is not what Enginer states in their message.

    Next, Priuschat is not the best place to ask these questions. I would suggest that you go to the Engineer forum and discuss these questions where you can get the answers from the people that are actively working with Enginer.

    Finally it is clear that the title for this thread is at the very least missleading. But only mrbigh or the administrator can change that title.

    Thanks,
    Dan
  13. Offline

    SageBrush Senior Member

    Member Since:
    Jun 4, 2008
    Posts:
    8,551
    Likes Received:
    1,620
    Location:
    New Mexico
    Your Vehicle Year:
    2012 Prius v wagon
    Model:
    Two
    Installers will applaud this move, since it pushes customers their way and they can charge for 'support.' As a potential customer it makes me more hesitant to buy the device because it is unlikely that the dealer has the expertise of Enginer itself, and if the installer turns out to provide poor after purchase support Enginer will not step in.

    I predict that a few bad installers is going to tarnish this product's reputation and scare customers away even more than the series of defective component stories. I do understand Enginer's desire to save resources and not provide stoopid customer support, but I cannot accept them taking themselves out of the customer support loop completely. I would find acceptable them saying "try to sort this out with your installer first, and call us if the installer cannot provide satisfaction."

    In a fashion, they have to QA their installer network and not leave customers hanging because of installer deficiencies. Imagine if Toyota said "the dealership where a customer bought their car is their only future point of contact for all post-purchase issues." The Prius is magnitudes better quality at purchase than the Enginer kit, but I certainly would not have bought the car.
  14. Offline

    dan2l 2014 Prius v wagon

    Member Since:
    Nov 26, 2009
    Posts:
    651
    Likes Received:
    259
    Location:
    Vancouver Wasington
    Your Vehicle Year:
    2014 Prius v wagon
    Model:
    Five
    Enginer changing dealer based sales

    Hello SageBrush,
    Clearly you do not know the installer base within the Enginer organization. There is extensive expertise in the installer base. Also Enginer is not saying that they will not step in. You are making assumptions in your statements that are not based on the facts.

    Anyway, I have always agreed that the customers need to do some level og investigation to faind an installer that they trust. this is no differant than you would do if you were looking for a contractor to work on your house to do a remodel or even just some painting. Anytime you invest a couple thousand dollars you need to do your homework.

    Thanks,
    Dan Lander
  15. Offline

    SageBrush Senior Member

    Member Since:
    Jun 4, 2008
    Posts:
    8,551
    Likes Received:
    1,620
    Location:
    New Mexico
    Your Vehicle Year:
    2012 Prius v wagon
    Model:
    Two
    Re: Enginer changing dealer based sales

    My bolding, form Enginer's letter to the OP:

    Starting February 1st, Enginer will no longer offer the product to end users directly. We will have dealers to distribute the product and service to you. Dealer will set price based on their service offering and living cost index. Our focus will shift to product development, production and quality control as well as supporting our dealers and installers instead of individual customers.

    I stand by my read. I'll stay interested, but this change makes me less inclined to buy the kit. If Hobbit was my installer and point-man with Enginer I would have a lot more confidence in the kit and the company.

    I do think I should clarify my earlier post where I said
    to: Enginer has given itself the option of not intervening if a customer is not satisfied with the installer post purchase support. For my money, that is in general not good enough.
  16. Offline

    mrbigh Prius Absolutum Dominium

    Member Since:
    Sep 6, 2005
    Posts:
    2,310
    Likes Received:
    344
    Location:
    N.Babylon, Long Island, NY
    Your Vehicle Year:
    2012 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Plug-in Base
    I also agree that Automation Tech Inc, US doesn’t have to step out of the technical/customer support; for at least one year since February 1st 2011 as an act of good did for their actual customers.
    I strongly agree that a network of Automation Tech Inc, US Dealers should be the outsourcing for the equipment purchase and installation for a proper warranty of the Enginer’s products; providing their workmanship warranty and after sales customer support.
    This Dealers should be an establish business, properly State and Community licensed and Insured or in case, an EAA state chapter offering their services for their Non Profit organizations.
    I substantially disagree that an “Installerâ€, by all means a laborer, being that will not risk a store front, licensing and related insurance, will act as a sale agent for the Enginer products.
    There is not a “Certified Installer†title, and if I’m wrong, please state public you’re Automation Tech Inc, US award of compliance.
    By Automation Tech Inc, US protocols, anyone was able to jump to the installer’s referral list if this person had already installed one of Enginer’s brands KIT in anybody’s vehicle.
    That public referral list doesn’t entitle anybody to call self “certified and or authorizedâ€, that it is a bunch of ……….An experienced or seasoned installer on this equipment, is more appropriate with all due respect.
    I strongly agree that a “protected†Automation Tech Inc, US dealer network be in place and act as a business, collecting sales tax for their services and depositing to the respecting Sales Tax agencies.
    Anybody performing installations on “the side†should be banned. These individuals will be taken the business away from the future Dealer’s network business.
    In one word, some legal business should be responsible for the equipment sales, installation and customer support during and after the warranty.
    As a former business manager in the electronic business, is just my 2 cents here.
  17. Offline

    adric22 Ev and Hybrid Enthusiast

    Member Since:
    Apr 6, 2009
    Posts:
    636
    Likes Received:
    130
    Location:
    Fort Worth, TX
    Your Vehicle Year:
    Other Hybrid
    Model:
    N/A
    I disagree with this statement, as I feel it is directed directly at me. I have installed a total of 3 systems, not a lot. But I am very experienced at working on electric cars and hybrids. I would imagine the installs I've done are done as well or better in quality than those by other installers. Currently, I am the only "installer" in the Dallas/Ft.Worth area. There isn't a lot of demand for the product around here (yet). I would love to just do Enginer installs all day long, everyday. But I can't because there isn't enough demand. So right now it is a side job for me, which I hope over time will increase.

    So if you ban me from being an installer, then you just basically denied everyone in North Texas the ability to get an enginer kit installed in the future. Nobody is going to setup a shop and spend a lot of time or money to become certified to install a product that will bring them about 3 customers per year.

    I would say the only reason any installer should be banned would be if they have done poor work, or show poor ethics. Otherwise, Enginer needs as many installers as they can get.
  18. Offline

    mrbigh Prius Absolutum Dominium

    Member Since:
    Sep 6, 2005
    Posts:
    2,310
    Likes Received:
    344
    Location:
    N.Babylon, Long Island, NY
    Your Vehicle Year:
    2012 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Plug-in Base
    You do have a business so, become a DEALER and installation company for Automation Tech Inc, US and the problem of a "title" is solved.
  19. Offline

    cproaudio Speedlock Overrider

    Member Since:
    Jul 7, 2010
    Posts:
    1,677
    Likes Received:
    367
    Location:
    CA
    Your Vehicle Year:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    V
    I agree with adric22. The cost of doing business is just to much to do 3 installs a year. Hell, 3 installs a month is not enough. 3 installs a week maybe. There are lots of permits, licenses to apply for. And, not to mention monthly and annual expenses. What about ASE certification? is it necessary? I'd put installing an Enginer system in the same category as car stereo/electronics. You don't need any certifications to install stereos, video systems, alarms, and navigations. I mean, you can get MECP certified but it doesn't make you a better installer. I got my MECP in 94 and I didn't know jack back then. When I got out of the stereo installation profession 5 years ago, I was doing 5 alarms with remote start a day. If you have some 12v electronics experience and have installed an Enginer system just once, you should be-able to do the next one without any problems. You'll probably do it better too. There is no way anyone can survive on 3 installs per year. This is why there's nothing wrong with being an installer "on the side".
  20. Offline

    edthefox5 Senior Member

    Member Since:
    Jul 25, 2007
    Posts:
    3,313
    Likes Received:
    628
    Location:
    Clearwater, Florida
    Your Vehicle Year:
    2007 Prius
    Model:
    Two

Share This Page