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EPA can drop the city/hwy FE format just give combined far as I'm concerned

Discussion in 'Fred's House of Pancakes' started by cycledrum, Feb 21, 2011.

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  1. cycledrum

    cycledrum PSOCSOASP

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    35 MPG Hwy! 42 MPG hwy !! (that's the TV commercial numbers)

    No, more like 27 MPG combined, 32 MPG combined respectively (for conventionals)

    Far as I'm concerned, the EPA can just put one fuel economy figure - combined FE and drop the city and hwy FE figures off new car window stickers, charts.

    People see a Camry LE, cheaper than a Prius, 33 MPG hwy ... maybe 'we'll' get that.
    Wrong, you're going to see the 26 combined at the pump, unless you're on the highway all day.

    Do they really need to know highway fuel economy? No. Just figure it will be better than the combined and city driving only will be worse. Simple.
  2. cycledrum

    cycledrum PSOCSOASP

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    So, EPA, go to a single fuel economy number system - combined FE. Then we can compare apples to apples -

    Prius - 50 MPG
    Camry 26 MPG
    Corolla 31 MPG
    Civic 29 MPG
    .
    .
    etc..
  3. Stev0

    Stev0 Honorary Hong Kong Cavalier

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    I prefer them separately because I almost never see a highway, so I ignore those numbers entirely and just look at the city numbers.
  4. cycledrum

    cycledrum PSOCSOASP

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    Trouble is mfrs. are free to market cars on the high number, highway fuel economy. And they do. I've never heard a combined FE number on a TV commercial (unless Prius). TV, newspaper, etc... it's always the highway FE quoted.

    It's suggestive selling which is likely causing people to buy less efficient cars than they think they are getting.

    It's easy to tell oneself - I think I drive highway most of the time and I can get close to that high figure. But they don't.
  5. cycledrum

    cycledrum PSOCSOASP

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    I find the EPA ratings to be fairly accurate - My 2009 Prius was darn close the combined figure, same with my '11 Accord.

    It would take a miracle for EPA to drop the high/low game and give us what matters as said before ... but it would less clutter in comparing cars.

    '10 Prius - 50
    Camry - 26
    Corolla - 31
    Civic - 29
    Accord - 26

    Hey, the EPA website is full of info on man-made climate change, and to buy more efficient cars.

    I believe the above suggestion would help.
  6. F8L

    F8L Protecting Habitat & AG Lands

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    I hear you. I have been getting more and more irritated with the way MPG is marketed. I realize it is mainly an issue with hybrids having such a tighter variance than conventional cars. However, look at the regular Sonata vs. the hybrid Sonata. The Hyundai website advertises the turbo Sonata at 32mpg and the non-turbo at 34mpg (highway). They advertise the hybrid at 40mpg. Alot of people will be blind to the real mpg numbers (combined) and not realize that the hybrid gets MUCH better gas mileage overall.
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  7. cycledrum

    cycledrum PSOCSOASP

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    Here's a thought (wish actually) .......

    for conventionals, only state the combined fuel economy

    for hybrids, city/hwy/combined

    Prius - 51/48/50
    HCH - 41/45/43

    regular Sonata - 27
    reg. Camry - 26

    punish those conventionals :D:D
  8. 2k1Toaster

    2k1Toaster HID Guru

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    Well the difference is always there. It is just a matter of "will 6mpg really make all that big a difference?" Then once they are talked into that, well if I get these options it is only another 2-3mpg worse, and the city expectation is only another 2-3mpg worse ontop of that...

    So simple solution, tax the crap out of gas. Then yes, those 2-3mpg will matter as will that initial drop. If my Prius costs $100USD to fill up, then so be it.
  9. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North Staff Member

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    I prefer both numbers. The reason is that I only look at the city number and not the combined or highway number. Given that we're nearly 100% city, that's the number we strive for. Of course other parts of Canada will beneft from the combined number. For example, we're getting poorer mileage on our 2002 Camry 4 cylinder than one of my old managers in his Chrysler 300 V6 cause we only drive in the city while he does over 110km/h on the highway (and still beats our mileage). Of course his commute is much longer. We may only drive 20-30km/day while he'll be doing 80-100km/day.
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  10. hyo silver

    hyo silver Awaaaaay

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    You're still using less gas. It's overall consumption that counts, not just MPG.
  11. cwerdna

    cwerdna Senior Member

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    I don't think the EPA should do away w/the city and highway numbers but rather perhaps they only allow combined numbers to be advertised. Or, perhaps that the automakers must advertise both city and highway and not just one or the other.

    As I've mentioned before, I'd really like a short drive city test in cold weather to be added and reported. It really irks me when people complain about "poor" mileage on their Prius when they have 5-10 minute long city drives, complaining that's it's way below the EPA city number and usually they have no idea what they got on their conventional ICE car over the same route.

    Then, of course, they'll compare it to some high sounding EPA highway number for some (usually smaller) econobox, some not so cheap.

    The only two portions of the EPA tests w/city driving and a cold engine are 31.2 minutes long!
  12. 2k1Toaster

    2k1Toaster HID Guru

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    I'm pretty sure they do have to advertise both numbers. If you pause a car ad, in the fine print at the bottom it always says X/Y mpg city/hwy. Usually right before the financing terms and conditions.

    Sometimes it is only 16 frames long, so about 0.5seconds and a giant wall of text at 0.nothing sized font. I think something should be done about that!
  13. Skoorbmax

    Skoorbmax Senior Member

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    One would be fine for me but when I consider a vehicle I run tons of numbers and always average the two anyway, so I just do the step EPA doesn't.
  14. cwerdna

    cwerdna Senior Member

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    Ugh...I must've accidentally clicked and rated this thread 1*. I can't change as I didn't mean for it to be rated that low.


    Hmm... you're probably right, but that's not what I meant.

    I want the crap of stuff like TV ads saying "the 40 mpg Cruze" to stop. In radio and TV ads and in large fonts onscreen or in print, they should only be allowed to state combined or both numbers.
  15. 2k1Toaster

    2k1Toaster HID Guru

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    Apparently they have to display one with "substantially more prominence" than the other: http://ecfr.gpoaccess.gov/cgi/t/tex...;view=text;node=16:1.0.1.2.23;idno=16;cc=ecfr







    Although something else in all those caught my eye:



    I thought the Focus (or maybe it was the Cruze) had advertisements of "35mpg" but you only get than on the bottom of the line with the small engine and highway, but then the picture shows the top of the line with the big engine and big wheels. Hmmmm...
  16. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North Staff Member

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    I know but what I'm saying is that those of us who don't do highway driving will be sorely disappointed (remember.. Joe public just sees numbers.. they don't think). So instead of 10.1L/100km in the city as would be the case with our 2002 Camry, they would see the combined number of 8.6L/100km and wonder what's wrong with the car cause they're getting 11L/100km.

    And yes I've noticed that manufacturers (I will say Chevy started the trend and others followed) of putting hwy/city instead of the conventional city/hwy. It's what gets the person's attention in an ad. Of course with the Fiesta and Cruze, you'll see the fine print (automatic model with SFE package for the Fiesta or Eco model with manual transmission in the Cruze).
  17. cycledrum

    cycledrum PSOCSOASP

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    The chances of forcing mfrs. to not be able to tout their hwy only fuel economy is .. very low.

    And how the Prius changes the game ... the hwy fuel economy is very good to begin with ...

    then the city economy is higher than the highway figure ........ amazing! Folk, that is amazing.

    But, there are bigger, word of mouth problems for the Prius.

    So, I did my speech on climate change at Toastmasters.

    Got to talking to a lady about driving the Nissan Leaf at SF auto show .....

    she says 'but those fancy batteries in those cars cause more environmental damage than it's worth ... what is it Lithium that is mined in Africa ... yeah, a friend told me about that. That's a reason I wouldn't buy a Prius either'.

    >> Folks, I'm just sayin', that's what she said. I did not have a rebuttal good to go. But, she handed me my next topic for a speech.
  18. cwerdna

    cwerdna Senior Member

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    Sigh... on this note, today on Nightly Business Report, they had an interview w/Hyundai USA's CEO and "we've got four cars now that get 40 miles per gallon, standard...without any extra costs/charges..." :rolleyes:

    Ugh! How many of those get 40+ mpg combined?
  19. davesrose

    davesrose Active Member

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    Meh...when I was shopping for cars, I noticed the actual EPA numbers were different then the model I had actually owned beforehand. When I was settling on the Prius vs the Fusion...I noticed the previous generations of Prius got quite a few diferent ratings from year to year (many based on how the tests had changed). One thing when it comes to my Prius that's different from all the hearsay I hear on websites and this forum....I've noticed I get a few MPGs better on highways then city driving. I don't know how much of it is that there are hills with the traffic lights I have intown...and how much I can coast and drive (even when driving up through the mountains). The average MPG I seem to be getting with my Prius is 50MPG...as much as 55MPG on highways and 47.8 here in the city.
  20. cwerdna

    cwerdna Senior Member

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    The EPA tests changed starting w/model year 2008. The mileage of every car went down. Most cars had their figures adjusted by formula. You can lookup the mileage of any car at Side-by-Side Comparison.

    To read more about the EPA tests, see http://priuschat.com/forums/other-c...uth-about-epa-city-highway-mpg-estimates.html.
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