http://www.engadget.com/2006/12/11/ac-prop...-electric-ebox/ http://www.acpropulsion.com/releases/12-08-2006.htm Sounds kind of neat -- BYO Scion, add $50K, get a full EV.
It does look interesting. But they say they only want to do it for customers in California. Darell thinks they might be talked into doing it for an out-of-stater, but their web page says CA only. I think the car is ugly. I checked out the Scion at a local Toyota dealer. I'd probably buy the EV version if Toyota was selling it, complete with warranty. But to buy out of state from an outfit that does not want to sell out of state anyway, and have basically no access to service... I don't know. I'm less concerned about warranty issues than with merely obtaining service. If I could buy a Tesla locally today, I'd do it. Right now, I'd buy just about any EV that was a real car, available now. But most of them are low speed, or really weird, like the Tango. Sigh! If you're in CA and can afford it, I'd say go for that xBox. Sounds like AC Propulsion has cutting-edge technology.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(stomsf @ Dec 12 2006, 10:22 AM) [snapback]360699[/snapback]</div> Technically and environmentally, it's great; good speed and range and reasonable charge rate. But economically, it doesn't make much sense. You're talking about spending close to 75,000 dollars (55k + 18k for the Scion). Like all technical innovations, the initial items are hugely expensive, but price eventually comes down as the production and technology improves. Much as I applaud the concept, I couldn't afford anywhere near what this puppy would cost......and where would you get it serviced? We're all looking for some environmentally correct way to hang on to the personal vehicle; maybe the personal vehicle is itself the problem, not the propulsion system of same. Bob
AC Propulsion is the best EV maker in the world. I met Tom Gage and he really knows all the facts. He drove out to SUNFESTIVAL here in Scottsdale in 2004 in the Tzero, 300 mile range and smooth as silk. What a great system. The Scion is a prefect conversion with the xB, xA and tC all on the same platform. I sure wish I could afford one of these some day. Theri system and battery idea is also being used by Tesla and Venturi Fetish. Who knows maybe even GM will see how good they are and use them in a Saturn ION at 30K some day soon. AC Propulsions also does V2G, vehicle to Grid so you could charge at night off peak and sell back on peak and still drive like your flying to work and back. Their regen is the best, no braking used 99% of the time. I sure wish I could buy stock in their company .
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(jstack @ Dec 12 2006, 09:53 PM) [snapback]361304[/snapback]</div> Are you sure the tC uses the same platform as the xA, xB, and Echo-Yaris?
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(theorist @ Dec 19 2006, 02:30 PM) [snapback]364324[/snapback]</div> The tC is a different animal, and don't be looking for a long-range E-box out of that any time soon. May be the same "platform" but there's little room for the conversion and batteries! The xB is the easiest conversion. The xA is possible, but more difficult - and not being offered at this time as far as I'm aware. Though this really is a great product, it still is an expensive "conversion." Much better from a mass-acceptance standpoint, is a purpose-built, ground-up EV like Tesla is attempting. If the new Tesla WhiteStar can come in on time and on budget, we'll have a 4-door sedan with 250+ mile range, awesome acceleration, and a price tag of under $50k... all with the exceptional ACP drivetrain that offers the best regen, V2G, onboard charger, etc.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(darelldd @ Dec 19 2006, 07:17 PM) [snapback]364349[/snapback]</div> It all depends on the price of lithium-ion. Historically it has been falling year on year, but if demand increases too much (the new generation of hybrids will all be using it by 2010), then prices could go back up again. Sadly, a similar thing has happened with solar panels. Currently, demand for them is grossly in excess of current global supply capacity, so the price per panel is greater than it ought to be. Part of the problem is that places like Germany pay top dollar to bag huge chunks of global supply for their enormous solar parks, leaving the other customers to pay excessive prices for the remaining supplies. Until manufacturing ramps up to meet demand, this could well be a problem for LiIon too.
