Expansion of US Highspeed Rail?

To me, a subsidy is money spent by the government from general revenue rather than dedicated use taxes to make an activity possible. It's also tax breaks given to an industry or business so that that industry or business does not contribute to the national coffers to the same degree that other businesses or industries do.

Thus I'd include as subsidies:

All the tax breaks that oil companies get (they actually get a tax break for taking oil out of the ground!)

The cost born by society and government in health and clean-up for all the pollution related to the extraction, refining, and burning of fossil fuels.

The future cost, which will be bourn by government, to mitigate the environmental effects of dumping unprecedented amounts of carbon into the atmosphere.

Wars fought to secure oil.

Since we have borrowed heavily to fight these wars, the interest paid on the debt incurred to finance these wars is also a subsidy on oil.

The costs of terrorism resulting as a backlash against our foreign policy of supporting undemocratic governments so that we can be assured of a supply of oil. And related to that, all the money spent on anti-terrorism related to oil.

Cost of building and maintaining roads when it exceeds use taxes such as road tolls and gas taxes.

* * * * *

Airlines benefit from many of the above subsidies, and in addition the air traffic control system, and perhaps other subsidies.

Rail also benefits from a plethora of subsidies, though at least electric trains are not using foreign oil. Pollution from coal is a huge hidden subsidy, though where I live the electricity is from hydro.

The "free market" is a myth. Citizens demand, and government provides a mind-boggling array of subsidies. Adam Smith would be turning over in his grave.

Hey, it's been decades since I'd have claimed to be any better than Joe Six-Pack with his Hummer 2 and his hunting rifle. I'm just saying that without subsidies, the average American could not afford to drive a car. And I'd like to see those subsidies shifted away from foreign oil and towards sustainable energy.

 

Right I forgot about the darn tolls. I would stop in North Jersey so that helps a little. And I can bypass that pesky DE toll booth. Once you cross over to NYC, costs are higher I agree, not to mention difficult driving around the city as a visitor.

 

...more to the point, train is a great way to travel in the NE corridor. Used to take the Metroliner a lot on business, now its upgraded with Acela. Very comfortable way to travel, and fast.

However, when president Obama mentioned his high speed train proposal, I thought it was good. But I thought the focus should be less x-country, and more tranforming cities to be car-less.

 

You can also essentially bypass the MD bridge toll, if you take the last exit on 95 before the bridge, it'll connect you to Rte 40. You can purchase a 1 yr, unlimited passes ticket for that bridge for $5. Yep, you can pay $5 each time or get the sticker for a year for $5. I always buy the sticker, even though the last couple times I've never used it again.

I think that's a great idea. It's a shame that too many cities are so packed and have too little room to expand much of anything. Even a monorail, similar to what they have in Vegas, could help innercity travel. If there could be some way to combine air and train travel, that might work out. Air travel to get you to/from major metropolis, and then train to move you about to the local towns. Either undertaking, would be difficult and expensive in the short term.

 

Sorry Gumpy I can't agree with you, but it may be an area thing. I live on the Welsh boarders (north Hereford) the only service is Manchester to south Wales 5.5Hrs often standing the whole jouney and the average speed of trains was faster in GB 60years ago.

 

We had a monorail levitation system in Merry Hill shopping centre (Dudley) when I lived there, it ran some of the time for two years and was scrapped. There are plans to add to a local light transit system using old rail track but this has only been in planning for about fifteen years so to early to say if it will go ahead. Where I live now a car is essential only two buses a week, goes to Leominster 9.30am back 1.30pm Tuesday and Friday Local council are talking about stopping them. (cost saving) Train service from Leominster or Ludlow "same line" to get to Birmingham go to Shrewsbury change train to B/ham 2.5hrs each way.

 

Didn't the UK privatize the rail system a while back as a "money saving" plan? How did that work out for everybody (not just those served by the gravy routes)? Privatization of public services (including transport) is not always if ever a good idea IMHO.

Icarus

 

A big problem with the US passenger rail system compared to the Euro systems is that freight has the right of way and their are very few passenger train only tracks. It would be a massive infrastructure program to put an adequate passenger rail system in the US.

OTOH, the US has what is probably the best freight rail system in the world. We can't afford to screw that up by appropriating freight tracks for exclusive passenger use.

 

the northeast acella is a pretty nice ride. we take it to nyc and back. the only things missing are wifi and the ability to sit next to each other if you don't get on at the beginning. singles like to sit alone and hope nobody sits next to them. if a couple gets on, they have to split up.

 

I took the train form NYC to Boston last month. I passed on the Acella because it saved less than an hour and cost over twice as much as the regular tickets I found on sale. The peone level regular Amtrack was a nice comfortable ride, on time and the staff was pleasant. I took the downeaster from Boston to Portland Maine the next day. Cars appeared to be the same and service was on time and pleasant.

I would have like to try the Acella and would have if someone else were paying for it

 

We take the Downeaster from Portland to Boston quite frequently and vise versa. We also take the Cascades from Bellingham to Either Seattle or Vancouver quite often. Most always on time, good service, a bit pricey compared to driving, especially for 2 or more people but if you really calc. the cost of driving it's pretty reasonable.

It almost competes on time downtown to down town with driving between Bellingham and Seattle, not so much between Portland and Boston. (between Portland OR and Seattle it comes close depending on traffic and weather.)

It is on these close city runs where speeding up the service just. Bit, and making it more frequent would win the day for trains. The problem is in Bellingham two trains a day is bit acceptble to business travelers who may have a meeting, but don't want to wait 6 hours for a rent trip. Trains every hour or two make a huge difference.

Icarus

 

The Sacramento area to Bay Area Capital Corridors service is pretty good too. The problem is that you if need a car at either end you might as well drive all the way. This being California with weak public transit in most areas, you will most likely need a car.

OTOH, it's a pleasant ride and you see some nice marshland and bay views that you won't see from the highway. I recommend riding it at least once just because.

 

There is wifi now on Acela (or at least there is supposed to be).

 

i thought there was until the first time i took it only to find you need a cell phone adpt card or whatever you call it. i'll have to check again.
just checked wiki, it says they deployed it on 20 trains in march of 2010. i didnt even try last time i took it, i'll have to try next time, thanks!

 

they call it the regional and you're right, it isn't much slower. when there's a hold up (especially in winter and bad weather) acella gets priority and regional gets the shaft. it is expensive for not much else tho!

 

all good points, and public trans is way more deserving of gov subsidies than so many others. we can drive to nyc cheaper and about the same time (accident caused traffic jams excluded) but it is more relaxing on the train and parking in new york can be a nitemare.