You think it's just a coincedence GM announces they Volt, only they can't build it because of the lack of batteries...then the Feds cough up $14M for battery research?

The only question is if GM will get it ALL or just MOST of it.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Godiva @ Apr 6 2007, 12:38 AM) [snapback]418619[/snapback]</div>

The way I understand it is that the money goes to the United States Advanced Battery Consortium. What the hell is that? I have no idea.

So it seems like the $$$$ goes to a third party to develop the batteries and not directly to one automaker or the other.

Do you know how to google?

The answer is ALL of it.

The United States Advanced Battery Consortium (USABC) is an organization composed of DaimlerChrysler Corporation, Ford Motor Company and General Motors Corporation. The Department of Energy provides 50% of their budget.

Founded in 1992. Boy, they've sure been doing a lot of practical research on battery technology for hybids and/or EVs haven't they?

Hi Volty,

Well, ya know, there was all sorts of money spent by the US goverment for the benefit of the US automotive industry to develop hybrid technology during the Clinton administration. In fact, we can thank the Clinton EPA for the Prius in large part! The only companies that capatilized on it were Toyota and Honda. And they did so by accessing the public domain output of the program. Specifically the NREL "Advisor" software (mentioned in the "Prius that Shook the World") and the Argonne electric motor research (Argonne critisized the Prius 1 motor design, and proposed an alternative, which ended up in the Prius II).

The big three came up with prototype cars in this program, but never brought them to market. Some of these cars outdid the Prius in mpg-gas equivalent, with 80 mpg diesel performance. Then again, one has to ask if maybe the metric should be miles per barrel petroleum. In which case the Prius does better.

I am wondering if this research will not just benefit Toyota again, as they have the product infrastructure in place to use it readily, whereas the big 2.5 do not. Toyota could use the result in HSD hybrid even if it does not meet full goal needed for the series hybrid concept.

For example. Toyota did use the Echo Engine Block, to power a midsized car, rather than sub-compact Echo. As the big three only have compact cars, and no sub-compacts, they will need to develop the appropriate engine block from scratch. And the Volt concept being electric drive, means the appropriate engine block is even smaller.

One could say "but this is an American Project!". But if nobody in America is a willing customer, the development organizations will sell it where they can, or go out of that buisness. Most buisnessmen I know want return on investment, even if the government puts up half the money.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Godiva @ Apr 6 2007, 01:08 AM) [snapback]418631[/snapback]</div>

Given all the hybrid buses and trains that GM has produced, they sure have. I'm glad you caught that.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Jonnycat26 @ Apr 6 2007, 11:05 AM) [snapback]418799[/snapback]</div>

Then....where are the cars?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Godiva @ Apr 6 2007, 12:21 PM) [snapback]418812[/snapback]</div>

Well, I did specifically mention trains and buses...

However, there are the Vue and Aura mild hybrids on sale now.

The Tahoe (and twin) full hybrids, on sale this summer.

The Vue TwoMode/Plug-in, on sale late this year and next year, respectively.

Additionally, and more tellingly, they've pumped enough money into Cobasys to ramp up their production by more than 50%, and given them a contract to produce LiIon batteries.

To me it looks like GM is doing the smart thing by pushing mild hybrids on the cheaper side, and full hybrids on the more expensive side. I think we'll end up seeing a Cobalt hybrid long before we see a Corolla hybrid.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Jonnycat26 @ Apr 6 2007, 12:46 PM) [snapback]418826[/snapback]</div>

I really think GM still doesn't like the concept of a high mileage hybrid. They never did like the idea when Toyota first came out with the Prius and the only reason they pretend to like them now is for PR reasons. I think they're trying buy time.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Jonnycat26 @ Apr 6 2007, 11:46 AM) [snapback]418826[/snapback]</div>

What I'm saying is in the time from 1992 to the present they don't seem to have made much progress in the battery department regarding domestic cars. It's not like they didn't need to. Didn't they develop (and kill) the EV1 during this time? Then there's those three concept cars they got paid big bucks by the Feds to design (and never build). Now it's the Volt. They've had 15 years and they whine they can't make the Volt because they don't have the battery technology. Well, what have they been pissing money away doing for the last 15 years?

Just giving credit (and blame) where it's due.

Accountability and all that.

(50% of their budget paid by DOE? Give me a break!)

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Volty @ Apr 6 2007, 12:34 AM) [snapback]418617[/snapback]</div>

I hope it goes to the US automakers. We really need more competition for the Prius. In perspective, 14 million is a drop in the bucket compared to the hundreds of millions in indirect subsidies Toyota has already received (the tax credit) from the Prius.

Rick
#4 2006

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Volty @ Apr 5 2007, 11:34 PM) [snapback]418617[/snapback]</div>

http://jcwinnie.biz/wordpress/?p=1975 The money will go to delay things....think what this administrations "Blue skies (or clear) initiative" did for air pollution. Lowered standards and increased pollution. Orwellian speak is alive and well. Anyway the battery tech for full eletric cars is allready here. Just a battle for capital at this point, and hearts and minds of consumers.

This link at after Guttenberg, http://jcwinnie.biz/wordpress/?p=1975 ,will take you to a fairly complex history of recent battery technology NIMH and LION. In a nutshell, my nutshell interpretation, the technology is allready there. The Natbatteryconsortium is just a smokescreen.
Follow the thread from the inventor of the tech Ovshinsky...to the buyout by GMotors and the transfer to Chevron and the renaming to Cobasys...and their succesful suit against Toyota and Pveh....to block the technology...and look how many batteries Cobasys has sold, not sold...and ask why? Chevron makes more in a week by not developing the tech than they could make by selling it. This is why TESLA and others are going LION, the large NIMH is blocked. This is not a conspiracy or hidden. Open court rulings, although the settlement between Toyota and Cobasys had sealed parts. It is a smart business decision by Chevron. It is up to cosumers to complain to FTC about constraint of trade. Athough they are by their argument constraining themselves. but the original sale to them should have been ruled 'anti competitive'. But very few understood the technology. Just like Tesla the inventor of 'wireless' technology, the 'radio' and alternating current was labeled 'mad', many label this type of reasoning 'mad conspiracy theories' just like they label the Prius more polluting than the Hummer. Why? Why did the tobacco industry hire shill scientists to claim that cigarettes were if not good for you certainly not bad for fifty years? It's war for capital, for consumers. Follow the money....Fortunately for capitalism their are entrepreneurs like the Google and Pay pay guys at Tesla who have decided to capitalise on the current battery tech and do an end run. On this thread you'll also see a lot regarding the next gen Prius, actually the current Prius as of 4/07.