Flywheel hybrids

Discussion in 'Prius, Hybrid, EV and Alt-Fuel News' started by bwilson4web, Feb 12, 2009.

  • by bwilson4web, Feb 12, 2009 at 3:01 AM
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    bwilson4web 03 and 10 Prius

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    Every now and then, I come across an article about an impressive, innovative engineering approach. An old technology, dusted off and apparently with a brassboard version, these flywheel storage systems always sound promising:

    Why Gasoline-Blooded Enthusiasts Will Learn to Love Hybrids | Car News Blog at Motor Trend

    The only thing missing is how the impressive, gyroscopic forces are handled. The spinning mass generates a tremendous force resistant to changing the axis of rotation. This is not a trivial problem but I've long been impressed with the energy storage density of a flywheel.



    Bob Wilson
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Comments

Discussion in 'Prius, Hybrid, EV and Alt-Fuel News' started by bwilson4web, Feb 12, 2009.

  1. patsparks
    Spin it on a vertical axis and see how flat the thing would go around corners, hills might be a worry as would a banked curve.
  2. Mike Dimmick
    For the coming season, Formula 1 cars can be fitted with a Kinetic Energy Recovery System (KERS) which will allow a 'push button to overtake' system. A lot of trials were done with flywheel systems but they had an irritating tendency to tear the car to pieces.

    Pretty much all the teams are now going with battery systems. There's concern, though, that they haven't got the shutdown systems to isolate the HV battery sorted out properly.
  3. EZW1
    Just another way to store energy - like a battery. Also, there is no such thing as a free lunch: you still have to expend energy to spin the thing up. I simply don't see where any significant savings are going to come into play beyond the weight savings.
  4. Rokeby
    Do kids still play with small gyroscopes, or has that too been
    relegated to virtual space?

    It is a revelation to hold a spinning gyro --aka, flywheel -- even if
    its only 3 inches in diameter, and try to twist it in space. It really
    fights back.

    I guess it could be mounted in gimbals to somewhat isolate it from
    external twisting forces, but it would still see linear accellerations in
    three dimensional space. And there would be the problem of how to
    get power in to and out of the thing.

    To minimize the effects of gyroscopic forces on steering response I
    wonder where the better mounting location would be; front, center
    or rear of the car?

    All-in-all an interesting concept... 64K rpms... far beyond child's play.
  5. JSH
  6. drees
    I suspect those figures were obtained using NiMH batteries which are only about 66% efficient during charging. Lithium batteries are well over 90% efficient which should reduce the charging efficiency significantly.

    One thing not mentioned - how long will the flywheel stay spinning, or how much capacity does it lose per day? For reference, NiMH batteries typically lose about 30% capacity a month (though the new low self-discharge batteries are significantly better - I don't think they're using these in cars, yet) and Lithium batteries about 10% a month.
  7. jayman
    Flywheel systems are starting to phase out large industrial UPS's, due to their many advantages. For example, their efficiency is light years better than a line-interactive or especially online UPS. No issues with battery maintenance and replacement.

    Overall I'm highly impressed with industrial flywheel UPS's
  8. carz89
    Impressive concept! But, yes - gyroscopic inertia is a huge problem. So is friction. The transfer of rotational power from the flywheel to the wheels is not quite clear to me ... is it mechanically- or magnetically-coupled? They mention gears, which is mechanical, but I still can't fathom how they handle the bearing friction at such high RPM.

    There was a team making serious research progress with flywheel energy storage for cars about a dozen years ago, but have seemed to fallen off the face of the earth. U.S. Flywheel Systems.
    Reinventing the Wheel | Gadgets | DISCOVER Magazine

    Their flywheels were sealed in a vacuum chamber with levitated bearings for zero friction. Since the flywheels were sealed and decoupled from the drivetrain, the energy transfer required a conversion process using electric motor/generator technology and some sort of magnetic or inductive coupling through the casing.

    Flywheels are perfect for stationary UPS systems, but may not be the best choice for automobiles due to the gyroscopic and frictional forces.

    I think the research and progress being made with "supercapacitors" holds more promise to replace batteries.
  9. qbee42
    This is interesting. Years ago we used to use rotary converters for power conditioning. The flywheel effect of these converters provided a short bit of backup when the line dropped.

    Tom
  10. jayman
    Yep, the rotational mass worked well for basic power conditioning. I have project experience with the Caterpillar large flywheel packaged backup solutions.

    I'm sure you'll agree that especially for +1 MW installations, it's insane to have more than 15 secs of backup, *especially* battery backup. A properly sized flywheel will offer load support for 15-60 secs, enough time for the backup generator to start and stabilize
  11. Casi
    I just came across this interesting video of a young inventor from the Cooper Union in NY who is experimenting with flywheel technology on a bicycle in order to learn more about applying the technology to cars.

    Scifri Videos: Boost Your Bike
  12. GrumpyCabbie
    Just hope he's bolted that flywheel down nicely - you don't want that coming loose at 30k rpm and hitting you right between the legs! :eek:

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