For those NOT using Cash for Clunkers

With the CARS program depleting teh dealerships of their inventory, what does this mean for those of us who are not using the program? Are some dealerships ignoring the order in which people put down a deposit for a car so that they can make a deal with the person who only intends to get a car because of CARS before the program ends?

I've just noticed that there seem to be some people waiting a really long time for cars. And seeing that dealerships aren't as willing to do trades between each other due to the program. And I guess I am a bit in panic mode right not because I do not want to pay extra for the IV I ordered for features that I do not want if I have to wait past this month.

Thoughts?

I ordered and left a deposit for my Prius II the 2nd week of July and it is getting to the dealership tomorrow. I am not participating in the CARS program unfortunately but since I put a deposit on the car that was ordered it is intended for me. I would not deal with a dealer who would not honor their order contract in order to make another sale. If that is the case...there are plenty of dealerships to choose from.

That's good to know.
But I guess it just seems that there will be less flexibility when it comes to trading with another dealership for a specific color. And I'm not saying this is happening to me, too early in my waiting game for that, but I wonder if it may be happening with others. It just seems like those doing C4C seem to have very little wait for their cars as opposed to others. Unless they are being less picky.

It sucks right now because the program has increased demand on a car that has a relatively short supply. Most dealers are like zoos right now and I bet a lot of decent buyers are going to fall through the cracks.

any dealership that operates on that principle is a dealer i would shy away from... now availability of specific packages in your area is a different subject altogether.

I was just looking at inventory lists at different dealerships. Ones that showed 6 -13 available last week now have 1. Good for the dealerships.

I guess this is just not a good time to buy a car. I'm still early in the waiting game so trying not to panic yet. But as I said I feel that extra anxiety because I really do not want to pay for the new features on the IV. I thought I might want the iPod thing, but it seems like a waste of money. And I would have to pay almost $500 for safety connect that we would only use for the "free trial."

Whenever a well-meaning government does something to "help", someone gets helped (whether they need it or not) and someone gets hurt ( (a) more taxes, (b) reduced level of services, e.g., talk to anyone who needs medical help in a country with socialized medicine; our Canadian friends have been coming to the USA for years for certain procedures, treatments and surgeries because they don't want to wait or can't wait, (c) misdirection of supply and demand motivational factors, or (d) other (this is neither meant as a political statement nor as an exhaustive list of unintended consequences.)

Anyway, the feds have, in their self-perceived omniscient wisdom, decided that they ought to encourage owners of low mpg vehicles to part company with those vehicles for a payment of up to $4,500 each. Some might interpret this generosity as a kind of reward for owning an low mpg, low market value vehicle; in fact, as long as the clunker stills runs, the lower the market value, the better the soon-to-be former owner will understandably feel. While I don't particularly advocate the government being so generous with other people's money (the government can only get what it takes from us; or creates by debt), if they were so insistent upon doing so, why not reward those who've had high mpg HYBRID vehicles and who are willing to trade them in for new even higher mpg HYBRID vehicles? This would put more affordable used HYBRIDS on the market for those who might want to buy a HYBRID but can't afford a new one. (I don't advocate doing this either, but at least it would make more sense, i.e., rewarding what the government perceives as "good behavior" - driving a high mpg low emission vehicle - instead of rewarding what the government perceives as "bad behavior" - driving a low mpg vehicle. I don't wish to debate "good" v. "bad". I merely am pointing out that it makes no sense. Yes, I know that they want to get low mpg vehicles off the road; but, I think that the market forces (higher fuel costs) will cause that to happen without the government spending any more of our great, great, great, great, great, great grandchildren's money. I guess Congress must agree with Biden: (close paraphrase) "if we don't spend more money, we'll go bankrupt." I would say that sounds a bit like Yogi Berra, except Yogi Berra made sense with his statements; Biden, at the very least, just lacks sense.)

Note: it doesn't matter if you need the $4,500 to make the deal; you still get it! You might be able to buy 10 Prius for cash, but if you bought one and traded in a qualifying clunker, you get to collect the $4,500 anyway. Need has absolutely nothing to with it. As long as you have been fortunate enough to own a clunker for a year or more (and a few other requirements) you get the cash. Strange. I always thought that owning a clunker was unfortunate.

:focus:


But, wait! This is a limited time offer! The feds, again with incredible lack of forethought as to the consequences toward the "Clunker Have-nots", have created incredible motivation for some already shady Toyota dealers and salesmen to stick it to us. Why? Simply economics. The dealers/salesmen know that the "Clunker Haves" won't be around forever; the program will run out of funds eventually; Congress won't just keep on throwing money away to encourage voters to re-elect them forever. Well... Congress might if they think that will work, but the salesmen and dealers hopefully won't think of that.

Anyway, the "Clunker Have-nots" will surely lose a certain number of Prius at the hands of unscrupulous and greedy dealers and salesmen. They figure that those who were willing to pay full price, will buy even if they have to wait longer, so wait longer they must. Those with valuable worthless clunkers won't wait. The Congress has, in essence, temporarily changed the proverbial demand curve.

Thankfully, not all dealers and salesmen are of the same moral character as our fearless leaders in DC. If you're a dealer or salesmen reading this, it's unlikely that you are part of this crowd.

Oh, and lest I be misunderstood, I don't blame the "Clunker Haves" for this problem. They are merely doing what is in their best interest, and I would do the same. I hold no hard feelings toward them and I wouldn't even if one of them might unwittingly be the beneficiary of my "reserved" future Blue Ribbon IV. But the dealer would certainly get an earful...

Finally, a message to our "Clunker Have" friends, who have yet to make a deal. I think I speak for all the "Clunker Have-nots" in saying that we would have no objections to your telling your dealer/saleman that you don't want them to "accidentally misdirect" a "Clunker Have-Not's" Prius your way just to make a fast buck.

My wait started at 12 weeks and is now down to about 10... I hope.

Thanks!

I for one would not be buying a car now if not for cash for clunkers - I don't mind getting a bit of stimulus vs the banking elite. Don't drink the koolaid regarding the Canadian health system friends and family I know if Canada like the system. Do some research besides talk radio. Prius chatters do tend to do lots for research regarding their cars.

I hope my purchase, reduces emissions, brings up the level of discussion and understanding of energy efficiency and what we are technologically available to do, and the effects of waste on our health, energy reliability, and financial stability. All good unintended consequences of cash for clunkers.

The CARS program is a big pain for dealers, if you believe all the press on the issue. Multiple forms, an hour of paperwork per car, have to dismantle and junk the trade in, rejected applications need to be resubmitted...

I'd think a dealer would sell to a non-CARS buyer over a CARS buyer in a heartbeat. There is a lot of overhead involved in CARS that the dealer has to pay for out of their own pocket.

Good point creative. I think we have seen plenty of people using CARS and not using CARS who have had their cars that they had a VIN for sold from underneath them. It could probably go either way.

I think my wonderment is the dealers know that there's a good chance the person who is using the CARS program would not be buying a car otherwise. And the non-CARS person wants to buy and would be more willing to wait. So paperwork or not, it's a sale they would not have had so better jump on it.

And I am not speaking of my current dealership (in case he is reading ), I am thinking of the shady one I dealt with in the past.

There is a reason Cash for Clunkers was called Handouts for Hummers by some. It's great that some people are taking advantage of it to buy a Prius, but the fact is that the program is set up to help move American metal (i.e. trucks and SUVs). You only need to get 4 MPG better than your previous car to qualify, but your trade in must get 18 MPG or less. So those trading in their 14 MPG SUV for a 18 MPG SUV get rewarded, while those trading in a car that gets 19 MPG for a 51 MPG Prius get nothing. If the program was primarily about helping the energy crisis and environment, it would have offered rewards using a sliding scale based on the difference between old MPG and new. That would have encouraged people to buy cars with the best MPG - but of course that would have favored imports.

Actually, I can't stand talk radio. My knowledge of the Canadian health system comes from talking with Canadians (and also Brits) who needed serious (not emergency) medical help in Canada (and Britain) and couldn't get it in a timely manner; and also from healthcare professionals who have treated them.

I don't disagree with your overall message, I think the new vehicle mpg floor/threshold should be considerably higher. And as you mention, our 535 genius auto engineers in Congress deliberately made it low to include as many D3 vehicles as possible (ie, favoring D3 vs more efficient foreign makes). But your example is not quite accurate (see quotes below). In addition, 4 mpg better on a category 1 vehicle would net the buyer $3500, not the full $4500 - a point you left open. From CARS.gov - Car Allowance Rebate System - Helpful Q&As for Consumers - Formerly Referred to as “Cash for Clunkers”

If you don't have clunker, then don't buy a new car right now. Wait a couple of months until the Cash for Clunkers program ends and the market returns to normal.

Keith

I agree with you 100%! After opening my own business, and have a wife and 2 young girls to support, money is tight right now!

Thats why I was looking forward to the C4C! I have managed to save up $5500 and with the C4C $4500, That would be $10k. dang near put me within budget to obtain a Preowned Gen II prius... And get me out of my 18mpg gas guzzler with a 5gal bucket holding the back of my seat up. lol

But no!!!! Uncle Sam says it must be brand new! So I am stuck with my true clunker.

Thanks for the clarification (as you mentioned, it doesn't change my premise). I'll revise my post to read, "So those trading in their 14 MPG SUV for an 18 MPG SUV get rewarded." Oh, and my suggestion of a sliding scale is more like a $200 credit for every difference in positive MPG, not a $3,500 for the worse case scenario, and $4,500 for the best case scenario like the current program. My example of a 19 MPG vs. 51 MPG car would yield a $6,400 reward, while the 14 MPG for 18 MPG example would yield an $800 reward. I just wish the emphasis was on getting people to trade in their SUVs for passenger cars, instead of slightly more efficient SUVs.

On this we agree, although I still think the threshold should be higher than 18 mpg for cat 1 and 22 mpg for passenger cars is too low IMO. Why not at least 27-28 minimum for passenger cars? Beyond that, if you were in Congress, I'd wholeheartedly support your plan...

Don't forget the average mileage for the new car for this program was 27 miles. Not many peopler bought SUV with 18 mpg....

Steve

I'm surprised at some of the CFC bashing / health care bashing in this thread.

CFC is working pretty well, like reverai stated with the 27 average mpg car purchase.

Additionally, the Prius is one of the top 5 cars bought with the program according to Bloomberg:

Search for "Top 5 car sales under cash for clunkers on google", I can't post links.
Four of the top five models sold so far under the U.S. “cash for clunkers†program, aimed at boosting the auto industry, are made by foreign automakers, according to Transportation Department data.

Ford Motor Co.’s Focus was the top seller, followed by Toyota Motor Corp.’s Corolla, Honda Motor Co.’s Civic and Toyota’s Prius and Camry, data from the department showed today.

While the “cash for clunkers” is the usual mess that any government program is, I would like to have taken advantage of it. I bought mine 2weeks befor the program. The dealer didn't tell me about it. Cost me $4500 needless to say I'm not very happy about it. But I do like the car. Just need a new dealer.