I read that Ford bought Toyota's hybrid system. And then I found out that they bought the OLD technology. HA Ha, putting them even further behind. So, if you're think wow cool ford has a hybrid, think again. The '04 Prius is way ahead technologically than anything else available today !
How is purchasing Toyota's old design a step backwards? Besides the big bux Lexus and Hylander, this will be the only other SUV out there with a hybrid system. I'm all for it, and will likely purchase one in a couple of years. I don't need or want a $40k large SUV. All I want is a small one that my folks can get in and out of without undue discomfort when they visit, and have the ability to pull my snowmobile up to the snowy places to go play in the winter. Remember, without the classic's system, you wouldn't be driving that '04 today. Since I'm getting EPA city figures on my severely highway biased commute in my classic, the "older" system works fine.
Atleast Ford had the guts to admit they couldnt build one and the courage to buy the technology, even if it is first generation. GM's "hybrid" option of accessory power only, which improves MPG by 1-2, is a joke. Honda, whose products I happily owned for 15 years prior to buying my Prius, will eventually get it right and continue to make a great product. Anything that improves MPG by 35-50% is a good thing and support completely.
I agree -- if I really wanted an SUV, I'm hard-pressed to see the downside of getting a hybrid one, whoever makes it. Now, I'd probably be much more interested in the Lexus/Toyota hybrids than the Ford one, given general reliability from the two companies. But I'd wait and see what the reviews were like. It's GM that's the "death spiral" poster-child auto company, IMO.
biggest problem i see with the lexus/toyota is price. last estimate i saw for the rx400 was $54,000. and if the general estimate of $5-6,000 over the cost of an ICE only model is correct, that would put the highlander up around $40k fully loaded. of course, i am not in any way comparing the escape to a lexus or even the highlander. but still, that's a lot of money considering the accidents, theft, and vandalism where i live.
I saw that price, too, but then I noticed that it was a Canadian article, so I figured in Canadian Dollars, that's $39,838.04 US. The AWD version of the 2004 RX330 is $37,300.
Stevenscreek Toyota in San Jose is taking preorders for the hybrid Highlander. They're asking $42k. You can get the base ICE Highlander for $25k. The price difference is :cussing:
that's my worst fears come true, if correct. but then that is probably fully loaded as well... too bad, but i guess toyota can't subsidize forever.
Hi everyone. I've been lurking here for quite a while. Waiting on my Prius since November 10. I just wanted to say that Ford is not using old Toyota hybrid technology. I found an article showing that they bought just patent rights because they felt that their independently developed system was similar to Toyota and they didn't want any patent infringement problems. See article here. http://quote.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=1...id=azDp8xWV5rsU Hope this helps dispel any misconceptions. Terry
The article starts off with this statement: Doron Levin is a columnist for Bloomberg News. His opinions are his own. I'm not saying the article isn't true, but I wouldn't take one persons "opinions" as fact, based on one article.
some part of the bottom line, at least to me, is whether one will actually be able to GET an escape. i am not a patient person to start with, but waiting a year for a prius is gonna kill me!
Just to add a little more info out there, here is an article from Ward's also commenting on the Ford Hybrid. Seems Ford is a little upset that the perception is that they had to rely on Toyota to get things working. Again they state that they licensed the technology for legal issues more than anything. Personally, it doesn't matter much to me why. I agree that the more the technology is developed, the better it will be in the long run. There are advantages to having multiple technological teams look at these things. Toyota has developed something very nice but that doesn't necessarily mean it is the only way to accomplish it. I just hope that any others put forward are truly new developments and worthy in their own rights. The last thing we need is a repeat of the Diesel engine design fiascos of the early 80's. A lot of Americans still seem to have a bad impression of Diesel engines because our domestic manufacturers didn't do their homework. http://wardsauto.com/ar/auto_hybrid_contro..._ford/index.htm
The main question for me is : what will be the availability? If August comes around and my then 8-month wait is not ended, and a Ford Escape Hybrid is available, well Toyota you just lost a customer. If they have the same high demand / low production problem, then the marketing guys for the car industry need to be fired :guns:
i spoke to 2 ford dealers today. one of the salesmen was a friend. both said that they had no details now but would call me when they did. one said that all dealers who want to sell them will have to be 'certified' so possibly not all will sell it. neither one had lists (and here, the wait for a prius is a year, so this is a high demand area-long island) both took my number and said they would call when they know more
From Toyota: http://www.toyota.com/about/environment/ne...news/index.html TOYOTA ENVIRONMENTAL UPDATES Twenty-fifth issue, April 2004 Toyota and Ford to license hybrid and emission reduction technology Toyota and Ford Motor Company have agreed to license patented technology for hybrid powertrains and emission reduction. Ford has purchased licenses for twenty Toyota patents on hybrid systems and control technology for their hybrid vehicle development program. The scope of the agreement does not include the use of Toyota hybrid powertrain components. Toyota and Ford also concluded an agreement that covers licensing a number of each company's emission purification technology patents for lean-burn engines, centering on NOx reduction. Toyota has a track record of licensing hybrid technology to other automakers. In 2002, for example, Toyota and Nissan concluded a long-term agreement on hybrid systems that included two-way technical cooperation and, unlike the Ford agreement, the use of Toyota components.
It looks to me like Toyota, based on the way their news releases are worded, is attempting to make it seem that Ford is relying on Toyota for hybrid technology when that's really not the case. To me, that has slime-ball written all over it, especially when Toyota's Miller, when questioned on the subject, agreed that the patent thing was simply a legal protection issue for Ford. I bought a Toyota Prius because it's an excellent mid-sized, high-tech vehicle that's environmentally friendly and gets good gas mileage. By the time I'm ready to buy my next car, if Ford, by then, has a vehicle that's at least equivelent, I'll by the Ford. Who the heck want's to support someone else's economy when our own needs all the help it can get.
Hi, the question I have has to do with reliability! We've had A Ford Explorer - nothing but brake problems. They would not fix it correctly (or couldn't) traded it in for a Rodeo after 9 faithful years, we're replacing it with the Prius on order (11/15/03 tideland bc). I drive a 2000 ranger my remote doesn't work after 2 yrs, the transmission develope a clunk after <50k, dealer doesn't offer much support or sympathy. Do want to buy American. But frustrated with quaility and service support. After doing research and driving the Prius my wife said "thats the car for me".
