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    evnow Active Member

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    About $5k more for a conversion compared to Nissan Leaf.

    Ford Opens Ordering for Electric Focus - Driver's Seat - WSJ

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    GrumpyCabbie Senior Member

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    How does that compare to the Leaf and Volt prices?
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    Zythryn Senior Member

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    About $1000 less than the Volt and $5000 more than the Leaf.
    23kw battery, guessing rang about 90-100 miles?
    I don't see many advantages over the Leaf.
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    efusco Troll Slayer

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    84 MPH top speed. Anyone seen 0-60 info? Early price suggestions were that it would be closer to $30k base which would make this a very attractive car. But for only $10k more you get a 160 mile Tesla.
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    PA Prius Member

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    I was hoping to be seduced into "buying local".... That price does not work for me.

    PA P
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    ItsNotAboutTheMoney EditProfOptInfoCustomUser Title

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    'Merkin car company.
    'Merkin EV systems company
    'Merkin EV battery assembly??? (Obviously the cells'll come from somewhere
    'Merkin assembly from the get-go.
    Active battery cooling.
    Faster charging.
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    Zythryn Senior Member

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    And these mean what??
    I don't doubt you that these are improvements, but I doubt that is going to explain to most people why they should pay 5k more for the same 100 mile range.

    Now this one I can appreciate. I have concerns about the Leaf's battery cooling and feel better about an active system. Will this mean anything though to most buyers?

    This one actually will probably make a big difference marketing-wise. Unfortunately is is virtually irrelevant. Get quick charges down under 20 minutes and that will be useful to people. The difference between 3 and 6 hours isn't much. If you have to wait for 3 hours, you will probably be ok waiting for 6.

    Personally, after driving EV(s) for over a year, the speed of charging is the least of my concerns. It is a cell phone. I use it each day, plug it in at night and use it the next day.

    Yes, all else being the same, charging quicker is better than not. But does it put more stress/wear on the batteries? Any other drawbacks?
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    bisco cookie crumbler

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    how does the interior room and layout compare to leaf?
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    fotomoto Senior Member

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    The ICE Focus in SEL trim is nicely appointed and nearly $20K less when comparing MSRP's. That's going to be a HUGE hurdle for anyone other than early adopters.

    I was seriously looking at a Focus SEL (test drives, began initial "talks", etc) and lurked on a few forums. DON'T get the optional MyFord Touch system would be my advice. I'm sure the electric focus will have it as a standard feature so lets hope they work out all the bugs before it arrives. I read the MFT system was the major reason for Ford's recent big fall in the latest reliability rankings.
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    wjtracy Senior Member

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    PA P you are going to have to wait for a big sale someday. I will have to wait for the big sale, and then move back to PA to get the PA state discount. These things are possible but not in 2011.
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    daniel Cat Lovers Against the Bomb

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    I know one person who cancelled his Leaf order because he was so concerned about the lack of active battery cooling. But then he did some research and found out the Focus would be available only in very small numbers in very limited markets, and he would be unable to get one.

    For myself, I don't trust Ford quality. (I have the same problem with GM.)

    Faster charging is dependent on the electrical service. Nissan screwed up when they limited charging to half of what the typical home is capable of. But as Zythryn pointed out, charging at home can be leisurely, as you typically have all night. It's only for road trips that fast charging would be nice, and for that, you'd want at least 100 mile range in 20 minutes of charging, and even that helps ONLY if there are available fast chargers every 100 miles. If I have to go 200 miles between charges on the particular route I'll be driving, I'll want a faster charge, because 40 minutes is too long: I'd get bored and antsy once I've been to the rest room and eaten a snack. Where I personally take road trips, out in the boonies, fast charging will do me no good because there won't be fast chargers: I need an all-day car that charges over night. The Model S is close but not quite there.
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    evnow Active Member

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    Well, there have been hundreds of Leafs in AZ, CA & TX running in hot weather this summer with zero issues.

    I'd rather use a simple battery that doesn't need cooling than an older gen LG battery that won't work safely without cooling.
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    The Electric Me Go Speed Go!

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    Valid debates about recharging and battery technology aside, I'm wondering if Ford just hasn't made a mistake with such a high entry price and calling it a Ford Focus.

    I mean, Nissan wisely made "The Leaf" the Leaf...and didn't name it The Electric Versa...

    I have a lot of friends I constantly debate the merits of Hybrids and Electrics with, and I know their minds are instantly going to close when they see a "Ford Focus and a sticker Price of $40,000". The ICE Focus is more or less Fords entry level vehicle. I think if you are going to tie your Electric offering to that moniker, it needs to sell for less than $40,000...and I'm not talking $5.00 dollars less...

    I'm disappointed with price, and also the seemingly spartan release approach. 2 colors? Leather seats an option? Maybe I'll be wrong. But this seems like a flawed approach.
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    Zythryn Senior Member

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    This is exactly my concern with the Volt. The Volt has the comfort of a Cadillac, and the price of one. But instead of a comparably priced Volt badged as a Cadillac, you have an over priced Volt badged as a Chevy?

    Seems Ford is going the same route...
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    Zythryn Senior Member

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    My understanding is the active battery management will add life to the battery. As such, any problems due to a more simple cooling system will not be apparent for another couple of years.

    Don't get me wrong, I love choices in the market. Going without an active battery management system allowed Nissan to make the most reasobly priced EV out there or even being planned. It just is an area of concern for this consumer and I look forward to the real world results over the next 2-5 years.
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    sipnfuel New Member

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    I think GM and Ford want their first EVs or EREVs under their respective flagship brands and not their flagship luxury brands (Lincoln in Ford's case).

    I think only now that Prius has more clout is Toyota spinning it off as an stand alone brand.
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    The Electric Me Go Speed Go!

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    Certainly.
    But Toyota has maintained some genetic bonding within the Prius family. In other words Prius at this point all fall within a range of price within each other...

    An entry level Ford Focus is advertised at $18,500...

    I just know how my uninitiated, neanderthal friends will react. And that is with laughter at anyone that would pay $40,000 for something labeled a Focus. Electric or otherwise.

    I would of tweaked the sheet metal, and just released Fords first Electric Entry with an individual name.

    But really? I'm rooting for success. If owning an Electric was possible for me? I have no garage. I'd be looking at all these products.
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    daniel Cat Lovers Against the Bomb

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    The issue is not whether hot weather would alter battery performance. That's been well tested. The issue is battery life. Will the lack of cooling result in a faster decline in battery capacity and range? And if so, is it more economical in the long run to pay for a cooling system, or to replace batteries more frequently?

    I think a lot of people would have been willing to accept the lack of cooling if there had been a warranty on battery life, rather than just on defects.

    FWIW, I say that some folks were concerned about this. I was willing to trust Nissan on it, and I'd have bought a Leaf if they'd delivered one to me any time within five months after it was originally promised, or any time before the fourth time they screwed up my order. I finally got tired of waiting and sick of all the lies about where my car was and when it would come.

    I still think the Leaf is an excellent car and I think the folks who buy it will not be disappointed, as long as the range fits their needs and they are prepared for the inevitable loss of range with time which all batteries display.
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    Roadburner440 Member

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    In my view it is not the hot weather that is hard on the batteries, but the cold. Even the old lead acid batteries in vehicles die more frequently because of the cold. Like last year when we went home to Buffalo for Christmas. Soon as it started snowing we were having electrical issues with the truck. Sure enough battery had a dead cell. In Florida it was fine, but in NY with the lower amperage available at start it just couldn't take it.... The same will most likely be true for the Li-Ion batteries, and is why the 2012 Leaf utilizes a battery heater. Cooling it in hotter weather will tend to extend the life, but I would imagine the predominant reason for this is to keep range similarly close to warm weather range and not letting the electrolyte freeze. Personally I am glad I went with the Volt instead of the Leaf or Focus. We shall see though how it works in the end. Not going to say the price is to much since it is in the same ball park as the Volt. They chose to give it 50 miles more range in electric, while GM chose to give me a gasoline engine. Will depend I suppoe on if someone wants a true EV and not a EREV as to what they buy.
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    ItsNotAboutTheMoney EditProfOptInfoCustomUser Title

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    Well, for those who are concerned about US balance of payments, a (more) domestic option is better than sending $30k to Japan. For people who can afford to pay more, it's a big difference.

    But a lot of buyers will simply take the cheaper LEAF. I would.

    Early adopters, yes, since they're informed. Mass market too since they're even more concerned about battery life.

    Well, it's useful if you wanted to charge at home (or an EV-loving friend's home) between 2-trips.

    You need a cell phone that's less of a power hog. :D

    Right. You want your battery to charge slowly but at controlled temperature.

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