Ford's electrified C-MAX racks up sales record in November, beating Toyota

This article seems to be a fair amount of hype. I looked the C-Max hybrid over for about 10 minutes yesterday. It has a lot of headroom, and I'm over 6'2" tall. I had maybe 6 extra inches headroom. It felt nice in the cockpit and looked nice too. Things weren't quite so rosy behind the driver's seat. I had the driver's seat adjusted a couple clicks forward, and the legroom behind that seat was fairly scant. It could not be as much rear legroom as the Prius v.

The cargo room was noticeably less than Prius v. C-Max cargo area is quite narrow in all places and there are some wells that jut into that width.
The specs listed C-Max overall length at about 174" which is just about the regular Prius length. Prius v said to be 181"

Hard to tell about C-Max width. Ford gives the spec including mirrors and mirrors folded. I forgot to estimate if C-Max would sit 3 adults in back very well.

Looking at the C-Max, it appears small. The cargo area is quite a bit less than a toyota Rav4, much less than a Ford Escape. Fuelly is showing on 38.5 MPG for C-Max while Prius v is strong at 42.5. Prius v offers a fair amount more cargo room and rear seat room plus seemignly more MPG. If this holds true, I don't know how C-Max will overtake Prius lineup. Maybe because it delivers 50 more net horsepower? Could be. C-Max might be more substantial for touring.

 

C-Max hybrids currently average around 37 to 38.5 mpg, that is 18 to 21% less, or approximately 4 mpg less than the 211 Prius v vehicles on fuelly.com. Toyota Prius v MPG Reports | Fuelly

Check out this Ford Press Release, it's all about beating Toyota, claims fuel economy leader in every segment across the board!

Ford recalling 89k 2013 Fusion and Escape models over engine fires, urges owners to park their cars

 

Ford optimizes for the EPA test. They score higher numbers, then everyone complains when the real world numbers are way off. With the Prius, you have to be doing something wrong to get much lower than EPA. Fuelly sums it up pretty well when you look at the statistics.

 

Unless Fuelly has graphing of tank averages by date and location you can't really compare yet. The C Max is so recently released that the averages are distorted by the current weather conditions. It's clear from steady-state tests people aren't going to be making the highway mileage driving at Interstate speeds, but they can make it off-Interstate and as with other heavy vehicles good drivers will still make the city mileage estimate.

 

Good numbers on the c-max

in October

Then the fusion numbers in November will be to early to tell, but volume definitely looks like ford will finally reach economies of scale on its 2L hybrid parts.

As to the rest of it, Ford's CUV seems to be outselling the prius station wagon, but numbers are still small compared to the prius family. The camry hybrid and fusion hybrid look like they will both be hits, hopefully getting over 10% share of the midsize sedans. Camry sells better than fusion so I would expect camry hybrid's to sell better than fusion hybrids.

Its about getting the high driving position not to be a SUV. You can't get the mileage figures if you make it a SUV. Highlander Hybrid is 28mpg and expensive. This is about a reasonanble priced CUV hv and phev with great fuel economy.

Its not going to take the whole line up. Let's face it the prius c isn't really a prius and is more of a competitor to the honda fit, ford fiesta, and chevy sonic. It will peal away some of the prius v and prius people that want passenger room and better acceleration and handling. Hopefully it will really grow the hybrid market and downsize people from SUVs, who don't really need the capabilities.

 

Its a win win for all of us. Competition is good for automakers. I would have loved to have had more options when it came to a high mileage car like the Prius HB. But even today there isn't really a direct competitor to the Prius HB for the price (Volt is too too expensive and EV don't have the range)

 

Here's a place to see what's really going on.
C-MAX Owners, C-MAX Energi Owners, C-MAX Hybrid Owners

 

seems to be a lot of excuses going on in the mpg forums

 

as I keep saying, Ford is very numbers oriented... and they use the C-Max extra height, thats not usable compared to already tall Prius, to pump up their interior numbers.

People are not looking fuelly numbers... they check EPA and interior measurements and buy the car.

People can harp all they want in forums, but buyers dont read forums for mileage estimates or they hope it is not true anyway.

We can look at Sonata Hybrid, which has been disaster from every point (10 recalls in 6 months, poor mpg, poor refinement) and it still sells well.

 

My understanding is Toyota will release the November sales numbers at 10:30 AM, PST, about an hour and a half from this posting note. But I'll be more interested in the November Dashboard that usually comes out a couple of days later.

Bob Wilson

 

Then there is sample size. Last time I looked, there were 22 C-max hybrids and well over a hundred Prius vs on Fuelly. It will take a year before sites like Fuelly will give a representation of what the C-max is getting for the typical driver.

 

C-MAX Lineup Success Helps Drive Ford’s Small Car Sales to 12-Year High; F-Series Marks Best November Since 2005

4848 c-max hybrids and energis. The ford hatchback hybrid seems to be a hit

+1

Yep. The top 2 cars traded in are the prius and honda crv. Its likely this is taking some prius v sales away, but we won't know how many until all numbers are in. Let's hope it is grabbing many more small SUV sales.

 

And also some people getting or exceeding the EPA. With weather and fuel blends(EPA test is without ethanol), it's too early to call if the C-max numbers are too low for the sticker.

The C-max numbers are close to the gen2 Prius. Except it has more power, weight, and larger tires. It will likely take the C-max driver more discipline that a gen2 driver to get EPA. I got close to the revised EPA for my gen2 out the gate. I was also trying too get high numbers out the gate.

 

Yeah but it is a FORD, lousy reliability record. the facst also pick 2 fairly new entrants the V and the PIP. The gen 3 Prius is still the market maker in the Hybrid arena.

 

JMD, I understand you hate american cars and american autoworkers, but I don't understand your ignorance of the thread. The c-max hybrid is a new model, but it is based on the european c-max which has a great reliability record along with a hybrid next generation out of the fusion hybrid, again great record.

Thread is about sales numbers. Please feel free to do the mpg thoughts on the fuel economy thread, and your ford/american worker bashing on some other site.

 

why are you always telling people to go somewhere else? Why would he hate american autoworkers? What kind crap is that?

MPG numbers are very valid here, as if they told people it gets 38 MPG, it would not sell anywhere close to today.

Oh yeah, did you hear about new Ecoboost recall? Engine fires on those great reliable Fusions, stop sales and they have no idea why...

 

From his posts. He seems to only like imported cars. I don't like the hater mentallity.

We have 2 threads on mpg already with lots of points why repeat them here. People trading in old CRVs for the c-max may be thrilled with 38 mpg. If you are getting 38 mpg it isn't likely you were driving in a way that you would get EPA on your Cute ute, but are people willing to downsize for mileage. YMMV.

I don't think you hate american autoworkers, but you do seem to hate ford. Yes, the 1.6 ecoboost is a black eye. I don't think that has much to do with this thread on hybrids unless you want to ford bash. Did you see the latest toyota recall on gen II prius? Not much to do with prius v either, they use different parts.

Why can't we be happy with growing shifts to hybrids from less economical cars. It seems some fanbois here just want it to be imports or nothing, or toyotas or nothing.

I am in favor of more good fuel economy vehicles period, and the high sales of c-max is a positive for that. I understand some hate ford and want to bash it in every thread, but why? Competition is good for the consumer, and will push toyota to build better hybrids. They may even build the next generation prius in NA. I hope they do and make it better handling as per the rumors.

 

Austin I don't hate American Auto Manufactures. I'm not fond of companies with a lousy track record on Quality no matter where they are located. I have had good experiences with Toyota and Honda, and deplorable experineces with BMW, Chev, Ford. In fact my wife just purchased a Acura Hybrid that was assembled in the USA. A car is the second largest purchase a typical family makes and to get bleed dry over quality problems is my gripe.

 

If I misread you on american autoworkers, remember reliability varies quite a bit from model to model. Things change every decade or so. There do not seem to be any quality problems with the current c-max or the last generation or current fusion hybrids. Time will tell.

I'm glad you are open to buying a car built in america. I'm sorry that the acura hybrids along with the CRV have had a quality problem with door latches, but I'm sure honda is addressing these.