What I find fascinating it is not being the rumored series design, as so many had speculated. Instead, it is just an augmentation of the "full" hybrid design that many Prius enthusiasts hoped for... since that will definitely encourage Toyota to take another step further with the use of electricity.

But just like when Prius was new, they have quite a bit of logistics to tackle. Everything from misconceptions to salepeople still need to be addressed. Then once those questions are answered, many will still wait for the real-world data before actually making a purchase.

With plug-in technology especially, there are quite a few unknowns. Dealing with those will take time. Meanwhile, lots of counter-efforts will likely thrive. The greatest steps forward always encounter resistance. Inevitable change awakens inevitable futility. That part of the game. So I'm thrilled that GM is part of this. They certainly weren't during the previous phases of hybrid rollout.

70 mpg is not very impressive and is not terribly meaningful until one spells out what that number is based upon.

I'm torn. On one hand I encourage any company that produces plug-in hybrids, but on the other hand (since I've just watched "Who Killed the Electric Car?"), I have to say: By all means get a PHEV, but get one from anybody *but* GM. They may decide to recall them all and crush them, just like they did with the EV1.

GM announced an 80 mpg vehicle 5 years ago (the precept).

That project got scrapped before production.

http://www.popularmechanics.com/automotive...rs/1267946.html

Well back for awhile, the Pri (2005) came back to life, was "over there" overseas...Hope GM can pull it off, how about a little "patriotism" here..?? Hated to buy the Japanese product but did want the exceptional mileage. At 70 MPG, a Saturn VUE, a 3500 lbs car, I definetely would overlook the Pri., and get the PLUG IN model. That is exactly what my next step would be, power plant cost and efficiency would be like taking the bus., or car pooling..it is cheaper by the dozen. As for GM and the rest of the US automarket, I would hope they are getting the message, I think they are. Good to be home.

Immanuel Altmann

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(tstreet @ Dec 9 2006, 03:57 PM) [snapback]359830[/snapback]</div>

70 sounds impressive to me. I have a 2005 Prius and during the winter, I get 43 Mpg, now that I have these horrible Michelin HydroEdge tires, I only get 39-40. Unfortunately, I don't live in an area with flat roadways, so my Prius never gets of 50 Mph in the best weather condition.

Of course, 70 is probably the Mpg during the best conditions, and maybe we can expect a lower number in the winter, say 60? If so, that's still much better than the Prius.

There was an article in the St. Louis Post Dispatch a few days about the Volt. It stated it could go 40 miles on a charge, and achieve 150mpg on a 60 mile commute. 40 miles in EV mode and 20 miles at 50mpg, that seems about right. My guess would be they are figuring out the mpg for the Vue plug-in the same way.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(kDB @ Jan 21 2007, 09:51 AM) [snapback]378642[/snapback]</div>

Don't overlook the reality that those numbers are IDEAL condition, just like EPA estimates.

A/C use and fast speeds on the highway are among the major MPG penalities not mentioned... but should be.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(clett @ Dec 11 2006, 03:11 AM) [snapback]360297[/snapback]</div>

actually that announcement came as part of the "SuperCar" project and the precept was actually introduced nearly seven years ago along with cars from ford and DaC in may, 2000

I would like for Gm and any other manufacture succeed in their pursuit of hybrid cars, stand alones or plug-ins. But I don't know if anyone has noticed recent oil prices... slowly dropping.

I saw a TV reporter who was upset that gas prices were still high with oil prices going down per barrel. He's got a SUV to fill up!

If gas drops below $2 for any length of time, Americans will drop any and all alternative modes of transportation and re-embrace the big cars once again... thus saving the Big 3... once again.

I don't want to see that. From what I see with Internet articles and TV news segments, most Americans are afraid to "live" like Europeans. Meaning econoboxes with no frills. We are people of short attention spans.

It's going to be interesting in the next few years.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(visaliageek @ Jan 21 2007, 12:37 PM) [snapback]378688[/snapback]</div>

If OPEC sees that america really tries to take hold on to alternative energy, they'll bring down the price of oil to price out all the alternatives.

It's been proven that our economy can continue to hum at these high gas prices. If OPEC tries to bring down the price of gas, we need an oil tax to maintain this same price level.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(burritos @ Jan 21 2007, 10:08 AM) [snapback]378707[/snapback]</div>

That would be a political suicide for any politician to add a tax to oil to keep gas prices high. Although maybe they can justify the tax to pay for other alternative programs.

You are correct about our economy and people in general. They simply readjusted their lifestyles to pay for the higher gas. Ironically, almost nobody changed their driving syles... just cut back on other things to keep gas in their SUV's.






<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Tideland Prius @ Jan 21 2007, 10:15 AM) [snapback]378708[/snapback]</div>

Tideland,

You are correct. I was merely quoting what the popular beliefs most Americans have about European cars. When I first drove my Prius to work most guys were amazed it had A/C and heat... let alone bluetooth, cruise control, MFD, tire pressure monitor... and so on.

They figured you have to give up SAFETY and COMFORT to save gas.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(sdgeiger @ Jan 21 2007, 11:36 AM) [snapback]378639[/snapback]</div>

Yes, 70mpg sounds impressive ... sad thing is, GM "CLAIMS" it'll be on the 2009 model. More GM / wishful thinking pie in the sky? If history repeats itself, yes. Funny thing is, as GM makes it's lofty claim about 2009, PRIUS is set to release their 2008 model in what ... just eight months? IT'S perportedly getting EIGHTY MPG!!!

Let's do the math: The sure thing '08 Prius, in 8months for 80mpg ... or a hand full of wishes in 2009, for 70mpg. Tuff CHOICE :lol:

Meanwhile hackers like Dr. Andy Frank put GM's "SOMEDAY" plug-in to shame. 70mpg by 2009 year model maybe?!? Sheesh! Frank's already been getting 100-150mpg for years. GM .... (shaking head)

As for hilly terain? We live/drive in both hilly and CHILLY states. Life time average (after appx 54K miles) is almost 55.4mpg. You simpy have to be willing to drive very carefull and purposefully trying to get mpg's.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(hill @ Jan 21 2007, 05:42 PM) [snapback]378789[/snapback]</div>

You must have a ton of cars honking behind you. For some of the large hills around here, it would take me nearly 2-3 times longer to get to work each day if I drove the way you are describing... I drive slower than normal in my Prius, but my car loses all momentum driving up these large hills here.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(john1701a @ Jan 21 2007, 08:21 AM) [snapback]378649[/snapback]</div>

And certainly don't overlook the reality that these numbers aren't based on anything that exists.

As I said in another, similar thread, the PHEV that I'll make will go 500 miles on battery power, and then get 500mpg when the ICE finally kicks in. It will cost $18,000 and have a top speed of 200mph.

The big difference between my car and GM's? I haven't yet broken a promise of producing a fantastic car.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(visaliageek @ Jan 21 2007, 10:22 AM) [snapback]378709[/snapback]</div>

Same thing I get with the EVs. Many are astonished to find that I have AC, heat, power windows and door locks, CD player, heated seats, heated windshield, etc. I guess they figure an EV is a bicycle with four wheels?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(kDB @ Jan 21 2007, 10:51 AM) [snapback]378642[/snapback]</div>

Which, as we all know, is an exaggerated way to look at this, because it ignores the electricity. The CalCars 100 MPG claim for their PHEV Prius works out to be either 85 MPG in terms of cost (cost per mile is like an 85 MPG Prius), or 75 MPG in terms of C02 release. Either way that's significantly better than a stock 50 MPG Prius. On the other hand, it's a sound-bite world, so you can hardly expect them either a) to explain it or b) to refrain from hype, knowing that nobody else will. Having said that, I agree that we'd need to see more even to guess what the fuel economy actually is.

GM must be pretty darned sure about battery life to offer this. Even more than the mileage, I want to see the guarantee on the battery.

But more power to them if they can make it work.

Wish they'd do it with a small car though. I want an EV/PHEV as an in-town runabout. Something the size of the Prius would be ideal. Both the Vue an the Volt appear much larger than I'd care to drive around town. I think they're missing their natural audience by trying for a large-yet-environmentally-sensitive car. The overlap of those two sets of buyers does not strike me as very large. Or, if you going to do a large car, do a minivan, not an SUV.