GM Says 100 to 200 mi on Electric Only in 2-4Yrs

Maybe in reaction to Toyota's recent fuel cell news, GM is reporting a chance for up to 200 miles per charge within 2-4 years.

GM hopes for a 200-mile range electric car: CEO - CBS News

I don't think GM will meet this goal at all. I've heard promises from them b4 but then the union went on strike.

It seems quite plausable. Tesla is selling one today that goes 265 miles on a charge.

The government developed most of the new battery tech, and its a matter of commercializing it. GM is investing in a start up that is licensing it. LG Chem, the company supplying the volt, is also licensing it. If the battery tech is commercialized in the time period other companies will also be able to quickly provide 200 mile BEVs, or whatever they decide the size/weight/cost/range trade off should be.

The big winner with this tech might be tesla, which could greatly drop their costs and increase range.

3 things need to happen if GM is to extend the battery range:

1- More powerful battery technology.

2- Lighter battery weights.

3- Battery price has to drop, so the general populace can afford them.

If (a BIG if) GM can achieve all of the above 3, then yes, the above will be a game changer.

Until then, time will tell.

DBCassidy

Tesla has the range but they use a much larger battery.

There's a lot of battery design activity going on. It would be nice to drastically reduce foreign oil dependence in just a few years time.

China's BYD already has a +250 mile range BEV called the e6 using lithium chemistry LiFePO4 battery pack so the range is not impossible. It looks like that GM's partner, Envia System, is focused on a kind of Lithium Air battery type.

A 200+ mile range may last many people a couple of weeks, would these batteries hold the charge that long? And would it affect battery life to hold the charge for weeks? Testing alone will take years before they hit the market.

The main challenge with all Lithium-based batteries is lifespan - they generate massive heat loss when outputting high voltage which tends to make them age prematurely, catch fire, or explode. The secondary challenge is cost - even in China where cost are low - large Li-based batteries are very expensive. The third challenge is recharging time - the bigger the battery capacity the longer it takes to do a full recharge.

The company with the break thru battery is Envia Systems. They claim their Lithium-ion battery battery has double the energy density of any in use now and that it can be manufactured for one quarter of the cost. Their claim of double the energy density has apparently been confirmed by outsiders. The cost reduction figures are estimates. GM will be but one of many companies wanting this technology. Envia is said to be a company that will license the technology rather than becoming a big battery manufacturer.

Many people like myself don't need long range...sure more is better...
I think car makers need to concentrate on what is possible now. One of my cars is an iMiev. In real life, it gets at least 80 miles per charge as a city/suburban car, which lasts me at least 2 days. As long as I can plug in every night, I'm good. Why should I pay for and carry around batteries to go 200 miles? I know some people need more, but that's not here now. Gotta live for today.

I think more companies will follow the pattern of multiple sized battery packs. Range requirements are very individualized. With choices of 50, 150, 250 mile ranges you get much more flexibility and only end up paying for the batteries you need.

The current offering of limited range electric vehicles only satisfies a niche. Increased electric range will be mandatory before most consumers ever begin to consider an electric vehicle purchase.

I think gas generators will still have a place for a while until we truly get to the point where 500+ mile packs are a possibility.

An air-metal battery with a 40+ kW output combined with a high-rate discharge battery would solve the problem nicely. Best of all, the reactants in an air-metal battery should be easily changed and/or battery assembly swapped. The high-rate discharge battery could be plugged-in charged.

IMHO, an air-aluminum battery makes most sense. In effect a reverse Kerr cell, a small pool of molten aluminum, carbon electrode, and heat exchangers would be what it takes. The aluminum oxide would be cooled by incoming air an collected for reprocessing in a forward Kerr cell using night, base load.

Bob Wilson

Lifespan and cost are connected. If lithium batteries lasted 20 years PEVs would already be selling like hotcakes.
Just consider that if a $600/kWh 16kwh battery is $9,600.
- 100,000 miles gives $0.096 per kWh
- 150,000 miles gives $0.064 per kWh
- 300,000 miles gives $0.032 per kWh

The lifespan limits the number of miles you can drive and raises the cost.

Of course, recharging is also connected to lifespan and cost. Rapid charging reduces lifespan, and slow recharging reduces miles driveable.

However, I would take issue with the final statement above.
- Just as battery size limits output it also limits input. Cells of a battery largely determine the charging rate: the limitation is the current applied to a cell. So, a larger battery can be charged at the percentage rate as a small battery, you just need a higher current. This is why Tesla has dual chargers available and is part of the reason they are planning their own supercharger network.
- The ability to charge a larger battery at a higher current gives it a significant advantage: more miles per (charging) hour.

I can remember in my lifetime when 100,000 miles was the practical limit for an engine and/or transmission.

Bob Wilson

Yup. And 40,000 if it was French or Italian.

One thing we can hope for in the future is that when your pack is exhausted, you can take your 40 mile volt pack and exchange it for the "new" 80 mile pack that is the same size. Also we can hope that with economies of scale that the new better pack is the same price or less expensive.

I would agree that easily changeable packs will be the norm as well. Just my opinion though.

We dream.

Double density and half the price per kWh with at least current durability together would make PEV dominant per passenger car mile traveled. PEVs with current range at half the battery price with higher efficiency and utility or double range at the same price and utility and slightly higher efficiency. Either way it would dramatically shift the economics.

But I'll be satisfied as long as we see a gradual, continuous improvement. Every extra mile of range, every pound of weight reduced, every dollar per kWh in price reduction puts PEVs within reach of more buyers.