Well. The gas prices going up have won the first battle to be more fuel saving awareness for the American car companies and general consumers.

Now, the next step is to see what inonvation comes to the market next.

Honda and its HCCI/hybrid?
Toyota and its 3rd gen hybrid?

So what is GM/Chryler/Ford coming out next?

One of Detroit's problems, well at least GM's problems, is that they build cars by committee. That's a big part of the reason why their cars are so ugly and give the impression that they're put together piecemeal. The designers come up with a really beautiful design and then the engineers complain that they'd have to work too hard to make it happen. It's not a surprise that mpg always comes in last in their considerations. Improving mileage suddenly being at the top of the list makes me think that they'll have one more problem that will get in the way of building a decent, reliable car. That's one of the main reasons that they can't get anything out to the public very fast. Just too much committee B.S. to deal with. Hopefully, Lutz has gotten rid of this committee problem by now but it tells you just how big a problem it is when it took him five years to solve it.

Ford is developing a new transaxle and a new modular V-6. Sounds like they're trying to bring more hybrid tech in-house. Suggests that they're pretty serious about hybrids but there's no doubt that they're behind Toyota. At least they're trying. The others are really far behind.

Before deciding on a Prius I test-drove a Ford Fusion and really liked it. I almost got one, but realized that the main reason I was trying to switch from my Mazda Tribute (which got around 21 MPG) was gas mileage, and the Fusion's 21/29 MPG numbers weren't nearly enough to justify the hit I'd take by getting a new car payment. Of course, the gas savings in the Prius aren't either, but it's a lot better (and there were other reasons for going w/ the Prius, too).

Is it Geek factor or the Environment factor? :lol:

Why not BOTH ?

I have to think that the Prius' success is that it's so many different cars rolled into one.

Every single article that even remotely mentions hybrids has to bring up the same damn stupid "debunk" point about how you'll never make the money back.

Consumer reports... :angry:

No one buys a car to make a "payback"... period.

He talks as if there's no good reason to buy a hybrid at all. I'm sick of this auto industry trash about hybrids... they just can't stand that a new technology is out there that threatens to replace the ICE design that hasn't changed much in the last century...

so they have to "debunk" hybrids by saying they make no economical sense. The Prius makes perfect sense if you consider emissions and oil dependency to be important...

Agreed. Obviously, though, not many folks are paying attention since the Prius seems to be selling quite well. If there were no wait lists sales would probably be even better.

Here's another blurb about Ford that came across GreenCarCongress:

http://www.greencarcongress.com/2005/11/fo...es_fu.html#more

Looks like Ford has ramped up production of the Mariner a year ahead of schedule.

What? You think that Toyota doesn't build their cars by committee. IMO, the biggest difference is that the committee at Toyota is likely the design engineers with minimal input from marketing. Obviously marketing must decide on what is needed to make the car a success but I think you'll find that with less coming from marketing up front the technology has a chance to show itself before someone says, "The truck needs to be larger so raise the lid by an inch." Its a lot easier to demonstrate what that inch does after the windtunnel model is built than to have to fight to take an inch off because "marketing" says it's required.

In actual fact, if GM marketing did their job and really investigated what the customer needed (not what the customer said they needed) they would likely find out that taking that inch off the lid height might, might cost them only a very few sales. On the other hand, being able to tout an additional 1 mpg could bring them more sales than they lost.

IMO, marketing makes these kind of decisions because they know there is no risk.

Actually, that guy's full of sh*te. It totally depends on how much you drive AND the price of gas. Unless the car is never driven or gas is free there will be no payback. You folks who have a reasonable commute or drive a ton will definitely see a "payback". And a LOT faster than a non-hybrid. The premise so much bollocks and often is incorrect because he's obviously just assuming averages.

How many people on this site are saving at least a couple hundred dollars (or Pounds) a month by switching? OK, there probaby aren't a lot of people driving Dodge 3500 Megacabs around old Blighty but still.

Also, LaughingMan, they never bring up the cost factor when it comes to loaded SUVs and pickup trucks that cost $40,000. If someone was thinking about buying a new SUV and opted for a Prius, they'd actually be saving a lot of money up front. When you figure in the tax deduction or tax credit along with saving so much on gas (presuming that you went from a large SUV to a Prius), their erroneous cost complaint is moronic.

Note the small print ..

It used to be: hybrids cost you money
Now it is: you will not save /enough/ aka "reasonable payback". What horseshiit. If a hybrid did not save even one penny over an alternative, it is still a no-brainer due to benfits to the environment and national security. I have trouble believing people are really //that// stupid.

Oh wait. I forgot. Iraq is not about oil. And global warming is fantasy. And pollution isn't a big deal. What would I *ever* do without the shrub to set the facts straight ?? Thank GOD for honesty and scientific truth.

It's not so much that they're stupid. They're generally pretty self-centered/absorbed when it comes to how they spend their money. I think this is particularly true in materialistic societies because the focus is more on me/my/mine than on we/us". The more people are connected to a larger entity (society/enviroment/etc) the more likely they are to make decisions that take those entities into account. Because of its focus on the individual materialism tends to do the opposite. Does that mean we should all quit our jobs, sell our stuff and join communes? Hell no. But there's a balance. Right now I think we as a society (America that is) are out of balance.

koyaanisqatsi, tripp

But unfortunately, there are many people out there that really ARE that stupid. I try to convince people that just by changing their driving habits, keeping their vehicle well-maintained, and with proper tire pressure, they could improve their gas mileage by 3-5 mpg - if everyone did that, our dependency would lessen. Not everyone has to or is able to by a hybrid car by any means, but I'm sure in 5-10 years, there won't be much of a choice.

And for those folks who consider themselves "scientists" who think that global warming is junk science, you have to ask them "where do you think all those billions of pounds of pollutants are going and do you really think it is not having any adverse effect on the planet?" I'm not a scientist, but common sense is telling me that we, as polluters, are having some sort of profound effect on the earth.

Interesting. I had to google that one. I thought it was an acronym like "lol" and my brain was hurting. I think that we're coming back to balance... perhaps too slowly for my tastes. The "Eath as disposble enema" world view is starting to show signs of wear. I can't happen soon enough.

[Edit]Err.. IT can't happen soon enough. I'm already happening...

I'm surprised you haven't seen that movie yet, tripp. The first time that I saw it was around 1985 and I woke up early on a work day, turned on the tube and it was on the PBS channel and koyaanisqatsi had just started. I sat there, transfixed, throughout the entire movie. Good thing that I woke up early because I was able to get to work on time but it's a great movie. From the Hopi language, koyaanisqatsi literally means 'life out of balance' or 'crazy life'. Living la vida loca, so to speak.

I'll have to check it out. I'm not really a TV or movie person so my ignorance in those areas runs deep. So do the Hopi have a catchy tune to go with "koyaanisqatsi"? Though since it's difficult to pronounce it might suffer on American Bandstand and it's modern equivalents.