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Help... deal or no deal?

Discussion in 'Dealers & Pricing' started by denovo, Mar 26, 2014.

  1. denovo

    denovo '02 Prius 240K

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    Looked at two 2010 Priuses today at the same dealership, both cars Toyota Certified. One was a V with about 80k miles, the other a II with just under 20k miles. Oddly, neither started without a jump; think I'd want a new 12v battery included in any deal (salesman said someone must have left something on... on both cars?)

    So the V was appealing, all the bells & whistles except the Tech package, but it had a very noticeable low hum coming from the rear. Salesman said Toyota makes them noisier now, to protect the blind(!) Also had 17" wheels, a negative in my book. And a lot of miles put on fast. They were asking $17k and we had real reservations.

    The II was more plain-jane... didn't even have a display screen in that model (coming from a Gen1, that surprised me). But it drove fine, and was considerably queter... we talked price. They came down on it considerably, to about $16.5k. CarFax looked clean, no negatives at all. We haven't shopped for cars for over a decade and I could use your collective wisdom. Does this sound like an incredible deal on a low-miles (maybe too low??) Prius II Or just a typical, late in the season, end of the month offer? We're on the road and need to decide within days, or move on toward home, where we could no doubt find something, but maybe at a higher price... What to do?
     
  2. fotomoto

    fotomoto Senior Member

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    60K miles is a HUGE difference to me. That's the equivalent of 4-5 years worth of driving for most folks. If these were my only two choices, I'd go with the Two and get an OttoNavi radio installed (with backup cam).
     
  3. PriusC_Commuter

    PriusC_Commuter Active Member

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    2012+ have a tiny speaker mounted under the front of the car that emits an electric sounding "hum" to alert pedestrians and blind people. As far as I'm aware, 2010s do not have that.

    20k miles a year sounds like average for someone driving a fuel efficient car as the Prius. But 80k miles is starting to get old, although you should have some time before problems arise. When buying used cars I personally try to take my time to find one with all the bells and whistles I want, as with depreciation those usually fall faster than base ones do. That hum doesn't sound good though. I guess being Certified at least gives you some sort of peace of mind for when the issue finally breaks, but I'd stay away from this one.

    For the base one, 20k miles in 4 years? Sounds like the owner didn't drive it enough ;) I haven't been keeping up with prices on used Prius's as much recently but that doesn't sound like a really great deal to me. I'd try to find one with more features, especially if you're planning on keeping it for a long time, so you don't get bored with it.

    Regardless of which one, if you decide on either make sure the dealership throws in a new 12V battery as they both definitely need them. Strange that it happened on both of them, it sounds like neither have been checked out nor driven in a while, all the more reason to drive the price down further.
     
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  4. tach18k

    tach18k Member

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    My 2012 has 65k on it, it is two years old and runs great. I just drive it like anyother car. I also have 60k two year warranty left on it. I had bought a used 2010 first for 19k before I took it back and got a new 2012. Better off I think all around.
     
  5. denovo

    denovo '02 Prius 240K

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    We bought our new Prius in 2002 and averaged over 20k/yr, but sadly, it's gone now. We plan to hold a newly purchased used Prius long enough to evaluate the next generation Plug-in when it appears. We have a pretty specific purpose here, and a good 2010 or 2011 seems like a reasonable choice.
     
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  6. ursle

    ursle Gas miser

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    The '10 hatchback model 2 with 20,000 is going to give you years of pleasure at 60ish mgp, Toyota certified is good, new 12v is good, looks good from my house;)
     
  7. ForestBeekeeper

    ForestBeekeeper Active Member

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    Our 2011 is silent, unless the ICE is running.

    I am not aware of anything I can do that would run down the battery, the car protects itself.
     
  8. denovo

    denovo '02 Prius 240K

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    When we bought our 2002 in Oct. of that year, the same thing happened! 12 v battery on a new Prius (35 mi. on the odo) was dead when we attempted a test drive. They DID put in a new one for us, we bought the car, and that same battery was still working two weeks ago. I WAS about to replace it, honest!
     
  9. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    i like the II, but i'm not a bells and whistles kind of guy. i think the price is reasonable, but not suspiciously low. i also would be concerned about the hum in the V.
     
  10. magnumrtawd

    magnumrtawd Member

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    That hum is probably the H/V batt. cooling fan.
    I would go with the 2. Add the goodies you want aftermarket. I have a 2010 3 and not happy with the Factory Nav. or voice recognition system any way. Would like to have leather though!
     
  11. The Electric Me

    The Electric Me Go Speed Go!

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    When you say "You're on The Road"...just how far from home are you?

    If there is no hurry or emergency in your purchase why not wait until you find a deal that doesn't represent a compromise in one form or another?

    Either or both could be fair deals. And while it's true that Toyota installed noise makers in later models of Prius, the noise they make is not really a hum...and not a noise that comes from the rear. I'd be concerned about a hum coming from the rear of a Prius. I believe in 2010 no Prius sold in the US was equipped with the noise maker.

    On my noise maker equipped Prius, the noise maker sound is not really easily perceptible from within the vehicle, unless you have the windows rolled down, are listening for it, or going through a drive through.

    When I can hear it, it sounds almost space ship like.

    I wouldn't like a salesman or dealership that was trying to convince me a hum from the rear was "normal" for a Prius.

    I don't know your total situation....or why you are looking to purchase a Prius while on the road. But for potential convenience sake why not purchase closer to home? If your purchase is not a needed "emergency", you could wait until you find one that is less of a compromise between...bells and whistles...plus hums...or a basic model.
     
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  12. fotomoto

    fotomoto Senior Member

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    Totaled in Sedona | PriusChat
     
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  13. Hybrid Dave

    Hybrid Dave Member

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    I bought my 2010 Prius IV with about 47k miles on it for $16k. This was with very little haggling with the dealership, just insisting on what I wanted my monthly payment to be. Mine does not make any hum from the rear. I would be worried about that noise.
     
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  14. The Electric Me

    The Electric Me Go Speed Go!

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    I guess given the parameters of this situation, I'd say a few things.
    #1, I just wouldn't deal with a Prius that has a "hum" coming from the back. The statement that they are making them that way to help the blind is BS.

    #2. If I was really, really confident, and really really happy with the low mileage Prius II, I might consider it, but make sure it's a Toyota Certified Used Car, with a warranty that will follow you home, and NOT just a "Dealer" Certified Used Car.

    #3. If you aren't 100% sold on either? AND purchasing isn't an emergency? Why not just return home, and if it is Portland...you have lots of Toyota Dealerships to choose from, and start a search locally? If you're not rushed, or cornered into making a purchase? Then my thinking has always been that with patience/time- good deals can always be found. And it sounds to me like you want some bells and whistles...but aren't confident, for good reason, with the Prius V. The II might be a good deal...but if you feel it's a "luxury" compromise? Well I think the key to being happy with a vehicle purchase is as little compromise as possible.

    But I can't answer those personal perspective questions.

    So I guess bottom line...I might consider the II...but even though the Toyota commercial is "Hum, Hum, Hum, there's a Prius for Everyone"....I wouldn't buy a Prius that was humming.
     
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  15. denovo

    denovo '02 Prius 240K

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    We will probably wait until we get home. The totaled Gen1 was our only vehicle, so things get a bit complicated. We can't wait for months for the best deal to appear, in other words. We have a rental we can drive home, and there's no 'destination charge' for dropping it in the PDX area, or anywhere else, but it is an extra $40+/day that could go into a replacement if we happen upon the 'perfect' replacement while we wend our way back to the pacific northwest.

    I think the 'hum' could have been a rear wheel bearing just starting to complain, but who knows. Our salesman was grasping at straws with his 'blind warning' pitch, and yes, I knew it was BS when he dropped it. We're in Tucson now, then Phoenix for a week, then overnight stops in Las Vegas, Reno and somewhere in OR on the way home. Do tapped out gamblers in Nevada swap great cars for card money? Just wondering...

    And here' s a new twist; in researching availability on sites like Cars.com, I note that some dealers use disclaimers like, "Photos and pricing are uploaded quickly on a daily basis! Therefore pricing does not reflect or include certification or reconditioning costs!.. " This was from a local dealer we haven't visited (Saw something almost identical in a Phoenix dealer's posting, so it's not limited to this dealer). Do they really post a price, then tack on an extra few grand to cover their "certification or reconditioning costs"?? The quote was lifted from Seller's notes on a Toyota Certified Prius II, and is in ALL of this dealer's Cars.com entries. I emailed the dealer requesting clarification, but got nothing but boilerplate invitations to visit in two emails and two voicemails. Not sure I even want to return their calls!
     
  16. PriusC_Commuter

    PriusC_Commuter Active Member

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    As the buyer, if you see a dealership tacking on "certification or reconditioning costs" give them your best offer. Don't budge a penny. If they keep insisting they need to add these crap costs, walk away. That dealership sounds shady.
     
  17. denovo

    denovo '02 Prius 240K

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    Dave, was your 2010 IV 'Prius Certified' at that price? Either way, sounds like a good deal.

     
  18. Hybrid Dave

    Hybrid Dave Member

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    Yes, Toyota genuine certified preowned.
     
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  19. denovo

    denovo '02 Prius 240K

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    To continue this particular saga, I did email the dealer I quoted above; three people, including the 'General Manager' and 'Customer Service Manager' emailed me, but made no reference to the question I had asked about the policy. When the Customer Service Mgr called me, we talked about it. She had no idea what it meant, was sure it was nothing and said she'd talk tot he sales manager and call me right back. That was days ago, and I'm sure the sales manager said, "He's trouble- drop it!"

    I eventually also emailed the other dealer with a similar disclaimer, since one of their cars sounded appealing. They put the quote in all-caps, as follows: "All Photos and Pricing are Posted as soon as Possible and Therefore DO NOT INCLUDE RECONDITIONING COSTS!!!." I should mention that my email was polite and nonjudgmental in both these cases,, simply asking for clarification of the policy. This dealer actually emailed me back. Here's his note (identity removed):

    "(Mr. Dealer) here Internet Sales Manager for (Some Toyota Scion Dealership).
    I'm contacting you in regards to the internet lead you sent in for information on a pre-owned Prius.
    You had commented about our disclaimer for recon.

    Cars.com is a 3rd party website with no affiliation with us. They take snap shots of our inventory for use on their website.
    If you go to (ourwebsite.com) you can view our website . Then once you find a vehicle of your liking and click on the vehicles link it will open up a page showing the vehicle specs and information including pricing. on a used vehicle you will see 2 different prices. the first being retail price (what the vehicle is worth based off local market value ). The second price is our internet price. Wholesale book value of the vehicle. How our pricing works is we would charge wholesale book + tax, title, license, doc fees and recon.
    Recon is how much work we put into the vehicle once we received it as trade. That means shopping, detailing and if applicable certifying .

    I hope this helps to clarify things for you. If there are any more questions I can answer please don't hesitate to ask."


    Well,my clarification level was still opaque, and his website sports the same disclaimer, so I emailed him back, even offered some advice:

    "I really appreciate your attention to my question. Your answer was clear, and tells me what I need to know. I’m afraid I’m still uncomfortable with it though. Tax, title and lic. fees seem pretty standard; everyone adds them to their quoted price, and that’s expected. Having a completely unknowable "recon” fee apparently means that if I come in and say I want a car at the price shown on the website, I may or may not get it, depending on how much you had to invest to get it ready to sell. I much I prefer dealers with websites where the price shown on-line includes those charges. If your rationale for this policy is really because "All Photos and Pricing are Posted as soon as Possible and Therefore …” I really think that you might just take an extra day to calculate your investment, add whatever seems appropriate, and post a price for which you will gladly sell the car."

    I decided to let it go after that one, but he sent me this follow-up:

    I understand your concern. that is why we provide the fair market value of the vehicle above the internet price. when shopping on the internet with us you do get a discount. usually about 1500-2000 off ...

    Because even if we took the fair market value of the vehicle and put in tax title license and doc fees you would be way over the top price on our website. By putting in the internet price adding recon + tax title license and doc fee you should be just over the fair market value of the vehicle OTD. Let me know if you would like to move forward Fred. I would love the opportunity to earn your business. Have a great day I hope to hear back from you soon.

    I guess I'm more afflicted by the accident (totaled our '02 Prius-about 1400 miles from home-two weeks ago) than I'd thought, because I still don't see how all this makes it possible to compare Mr. Dealer's prices to anyone else's (remember this 'recon' is a cost figure that is completely unidentified), and I suppose that's the business plan. Caveat emptor! Over and out.
     
  20. Hybrid Dave

    Hybrid Dave Member

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    I'd pull up NADA black book value on the Prius you want and say this is the price I know it is worth, let us deal. Or if you want less of a fight, pull up KBB trade in value and say you know th didn't get theirs for more than what it's worth and reach a figure that you feel is fair based on the fact the dealership isn't going to lose money even at a low price.