Now that the new 2005's are starting to emerge along with a few new "hybrid" models, it seems certain that despite the big 3's best efforts to sully the hybrid name, it appears that the Prius is still the only true hybrid worth buying.

some things are simply to obvious to be ignored. the lack of advertising has not hurt the Prius as of yet and i think Toyota is laughing its ass off all the way to the bank.

I agree. See my post: " Hybrid SUVs are actually a bad thing" under other cars and see how no one agreed with me.

How can every company introduce a hybrid in the next two years? If that’s true, when are the BMW and Benz Hybrids coming? 8)


I know I don't even have my Prius yet. But I'm getting that either way. I'm keeping my BMW 323i. But if BMW is planning on releasing a hybrid I'll be very interesting in getting one of those. Even if its a low efficient mileage... you can't beat the BMW handling.

Mercedes has a diesel hybrid coming. Of course, it'll be on their big bux car.

I don't know what BMW has in the wings, as I haven't heard a word on any upcoming products from them.

And unfortunately it has a pretty conventional transmission.

That's not anything bad. The insight can be had with a 5 speed manual, or a VanDoorne style cone and belt CVT tranny. The Civic has the same CVT.

Diesels already have a distinct fuel mileage advantage over gasoline engines. Added to their hybrid systems, DC is calling for an additional 25% improvement over a non hybrid diesel drivetrain.
a 40 mpg luxury vehicle is a welcome addition, regardless if it steps through fixed ratios or not. I say, bring 'em on!!!!

Hybrids & Emissions

It is often overlooked, there are more benefits to hybrids than fuel economy. Fed Ex demonstrated diesel hybrids in California this year.

Any hybrid, following the Prius design, should not idle the ICE at slow speeds or when parked. This means a major savings in lack of particulate matter. Diesel exhaust is a carcinogen!

Reduce idling, you reduce particulate matter and increase visibility. Easier breathing for everyone.

isnt the new cleaner diesel that MIGHT be coming around soon be much better for us?

i heard that the Bush admin is favoring putting off the diesel a bit longer... i thought it was a done deal but apparently bush has the power to push back the deadline.

Is coming and will be better. The one thing I have to give the current Administration credit for, is regs on Diesel fuel. They didn't delay the original Clinton schedule for retail sale of ultra-low-sulfur (1 July 2006), and they extended clean Diesel requirements to most off-road vehicles (construction equipment, locomotives, and farm equipment, by, uhh, 2011?).

'Course, who knows what the incumbent will do if he's re-elected.

Dare I ask WHY? If it is available for on road vehicles in 2006, why shouldn't it also be available, and therefore required, for all diesel vehicles?

Ultra-low sulfur Diesel fuel is more expensive. Off-roaders can choose to use it, but lots of them won't until they are compelled to do so. Also, it takes some engine design changes (I don't know details) and additional equipment (catalytic converter, and ??) to take full advantage of that fuel and minimize emissions.

Think of high sulphur diesel, as leaded gasoline. The sulphur acts as a "lubricant" in the fuel. It also has the effect of seasoning the seals in the injection pump. The changeover to ULSD will likely cause some off road engines injection pumps to fail due to leaks, or lack of lubrication. The latter can be dealt with by adding fuel additives to the fuel. IIRC, California was socked with a class action suit after they required low sulphur diesel for their market. They got to pay for alot of injection pump rebuilds.

pay for what??

ban the diesels then. if they cause that much problem, get rid of them. if CA pays a dime to fix anything they are fools.

Why. If the ban it as an easy out was to have been executed back in the 60's and 70's, we wouldn't have the vehicle technology that we do now. Using unleaded gasoline in a vehicle that required the leaded gas, would result in valve seat damage, and burned valves. The only reason why you didn't see class action suits over that, was due to the fact that people weren't quite so sue happy back in those days.

California made a rule, that damaged alot of vehicles. They got sued, and they lost. They paid for the repairs, and life moved on.

I have a diesel tractor for mowing my property, and now two diesel vehicles. If, and when, another fuel rationing crisis comes to play, I will be able to happily power these vehicles on cooking oil. A Prius with an empty gas tank has an awful short range. That type of independence is worth far more than the techno wizardry under the hoods of our Prii. So no, you cannot ban my diesels!! :mrgreen:

Oh yeah, on emissions, the only thing the Prius can beat any diesel running on 100% french fry juice emissions wise, is NOx emissions. Net CO2 is zero, there are no sulphur related emissions, better lubricity due to not being subjected to the desulphurization process of dead dinosaur fuel, and CO, and HC emissions fall down to trace elements.

The sole reasons why you don't see biodiesel in wide use is the cost per gallong of commercial production, and the fact that it literally cannot be produced in large enough quantities at current to replace regular pump fuel.

IMO a diesel hybrid version of the Prius being run on biodiesel would be the absolute cats meow!!

im sorry but if automakers cannot make injectors that can handle the new diesel mix, then they should sell their vehicles elsewhere.

fact is, i really dont care much about fuel injectors especially when the trade off is the lungs of my child.

imo, what CA is doing aint no where near enough and i'll not favor anything that hampers what little they do do.

I think you're missing the point. Of course, technology has progressed. The new modern diesels that are available in Europe, will actually be damaged by the now too high content of the sulphur in our fuel. That's primarily why you do not see them here. Technology has actually gotten ahead of the USs fuel regualtions. Once the new ULSD fuel regs kick in here, it will actully open the market back up for diesels again in the US.

Agree with you there, Once a clean diesel is available in the U.S., A diesel hybrid becomes the best of both worlds. What I worry about is what becomes of our huge diesel truck fleet and the tractor I am inheriting in a few weeks.

a diesel hybrid would be nice... dont know why we had to wait so long for it. here is what was introduced in 2000... an idea of what could have been IF the us automakers would have been serious about hybrid technology


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