<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(priusmaybe @ Nov 13 2007, 06:24 PM) [snapback]539122[/snapback]</div>

The kind of mentality that we see in this video clip is precisely why we have so many problems to deal with today. Did you notice he didn't ever talk about emissions when comparing it to Diesels? Convenient..........

All in all, pretty twisted and sick- and to see all those people standing there and applauding him.....

I was gonna ask why that's all landing on a Mac support forum, but
then again we talk about Macs and PCs over here...
.
_H*

Just like everything else in life. People see things through their mental frame and if the data doesn't fit in that frame it is either ignored or ridiculed. Genereally speaking this is due to ignorance of the subject or the subject opposes some deeply imbedded cultural belief.

Over the last 4 years I have completely destroyed my original "frame" and built a LEED certified structure. lol

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(F8L @ Nov 13 2007, 08:05 PM) [snapback]539181[/snapback]</div>

At the end of the day that English dude is just making an idiot out of him and his supporters. The Prius has gone so far in its successes now that all he can do is come up with unwarranted criticism. In the meantime, those of who drive a Prius can be thankful that we have it as an option.

Europe as 45mpg diesel SUVs? I know there's like 33% more energy per volume in diesel fuel but huh?

all that said
a Prius diesel/hybrid would knock them flat
depends where your focus is I guess, low emissions, or fuel economy

Prius has always been low emissions, the fuel economy is just an added plus.

Yeah there are some diesel SUV's that can get UPTO 45 UK mpg on a manual transmission using the Euro mpg ratings but they're not the big SUV's. I have just looked at the mpg's of the latest Land Rover Freelander and the latest 2WD, 2.2litre turbo engine with stop start technology gets 47.1 mpg (UK) combined or 52 mpg (UK) on the highway. The 0-60 time is 10.9 seconds and the hp is 150. The emissions rating is Euro 5.

So yes you can get economical lower emission SUV's but remember these are UK mpg figures rated on the Euro cycle. Real life will probably be about 2/3's of these.

http://www.landrover.com/gb/en/lr/freelander-2/explore/s/

the new Mini diesel gets 3.2lt/100 km, roughly half of the petrol version of the same car. No confusion there. 73.50 MP USG

The Jetta diesel is classified as a compact with 34 combined mpg in the US.
The Hyundai Elantra is classified as a midsize with 33mpg combined on regular gas.

The diesel automatic midsize car would have to have higher mileage than the Prius to offset the price difference of the fuel, and also, less soot, less Nox and no smell.

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Who here remembers the petrol cars of the late '70s and early '80s?
I personally don't, but they did take a hit in power output, and maybe economy when emission regulations went into effect. Now a modern gasser is as fast as a classic pony car, while burning half the fuel with a massive reduction in emissions.

Diesels are now at that point, but now the industry has decades of experience in emission controls. It shouldn't take long to get clean diesels up in fuel economy.

Diesels are going to remain important because of the transport industry for awhile. With the current view of the biofuels field, they seem to have the most potential there.

There is a photo posted in another thread her somewhere of a new VW TDI tailpipe. It's cleaner than a Prius one with the same mileage. Looks almost unused. So that's one thing down.

speaking personally, I think there is still room for good things to come. And considering the interest in MPG at sites like this, that has to be a good thing. Clearly there is a good potential for a diesel hybrid, but I think it would be configured a little differently to the present setup.

In that view of the future 100MPG or more is achievable. More work on less fuel means lower emissions

I will add I'm not a diesel fan BUT one of my colleagues has recently purchased a new VW Passat diesel and the tailpipes are spotless inside - after thousands of miles of taxi use. I was impressed when I saw it.

Still wouldn't have one though.

Well, photos and looks of tailpipes are good, but testing for actual emissions is what really counts. From fueleconomy.gov
2011 Vw jetta diesel = 6.2 annual tons of co2
2011 Toyota Prius = 3.8 annual tons of co2

Then, Soot, Nox, expense of particulate filters and those with larger displacements, their urea tank system maintenance, auxillary engine belts, etc..and, the Prius does not have auxillary engine belts.

The DPF's do catch a lot of soot. that's fine, until you google "remove DPF" and discover that once outside warranty the DPF becomes troublesome and then ends up getting removed. Once that and the EGR are gone, i bet the tailpipe is pretty disgusting.

The photos of tailpipes is just a visual of what testing shows, that a modern diesel with a DPF produces less particles, i.e. soot, than a gas car, even hybrids. At the rate particulate regulations are going, gas cars will also have those expensive filters.

Urea systems sound to be the best option now. The urea adds a maintance cost, but it doesn't negatively impact fuel economy as much. That's for NOx. I believe diesels are already in the ULEV or SULEV range of other tested emissions. Being a less volatile fuel means it already has a lead on gasoline in evaporative emissions.

Carbon emissions is directly tied to fuel economy, which should only go up as emission controls are refined.

The Prius doesn't have auxillary belts because Toyota was smart enough to realize people would bitch if their ACs turned off at stops. There is no technical reason for a non-hybrid to drop the belts and go electric for those components. Many are making use of electric steering. They could even take advantage of regenerative braking to reduce the load of the sole belt driven accessary, the alternator.

There was an outcry amoung, the hopefully small, tuner crowd when Ford made the diesel emission controls harder to circumvent on their latest engines.

The fact is people can circumvent the emission controls on even their gas engines if they choose too. I've known one person who did bypass their cat, and it is easy to get equipment, meant for off road use, to do so while keeping things in place for testing.

It may not be technically bypassing the controls, because the subroutine is in place for the Australian market, but there are lean burning GM trucks on US roads.

To sum up; don't blame the car when people break the law.

They only break the law because the technology doesn't last the life of the car, and is expensive to fix. We know that some people when faced with a dead HV battery in their prius would (if they could) just disconnect that battery. fortunately dead HV batteries are rare, but DPF and EGR failures are not.