<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(cwerdna @ May 18 2006, 12:01 AM) [snapback]257388[/snapback]</div>

I have sort of mixed feelings about it - the Insight was certainly effective at providing excellent fuel economy, however I'm of the opinion that Honda made too many compromises in the design of the Insight to reach that goal. Too small and light, virtually no cargo space, only 2 seats, etc.

It was in all senses an urban commuter vehicle, but there's no way I'd ever buy one for myself knowing those limitations - while most of my commuting IS urban, I'm more than willing to pay more and lose a bit of milage to gain the additional versatility of the Prius. Not to mention that the Honda "integrated motor assist" is a cludge IMHO. The Prius's series/parallel hybrid system is far more elegant.

I was also never really fond of the inside - the Prius had the Insight beat for interior styling from day 1, even on the Classic.

Dave

It's not suprising or a big deal that they kill it. It was done to beat Toyota to the "first hybrid" and in my opinion it's more of an ultra fuel efficient car then a hybrid. The current gen prius is a lot more impressive as it doesn't make many compromises.

I hope Honda comes out with a new hybrid car but I feel that their technology is not as good as Toyota or Ford.

Long live the FE king! I guess next year Prius will be the most FE car on the market?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(SomervillePrius @ May 18 2006, 07:54 AM) [snapback]257420[/snapback]</div>

Insight wasn't first. But reporters here certainly didn't know it; I have a massive collection of articles with that incorrect claim. In reality, Prius had already been available in Japan for 2 years. And now that the American press has become aware of their error, Insight rarely gets much mention anymore.

Back when Honda started Insight sales, their product-line was nothing but small cars. A lot has changed since then. They now offer a SUV and large pickup. The aluminum body prevented Insight from ever being a cost-competitive solution anyway. It was an easy way to improve MPG that simply couldn't provide a profit. But the attention Honda got in return from only having to sell a small number of them made their original effort well worth it.

That's officially coming to an end in a few months when sales end. Insight is about to become a rather unique collector's item.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(john1701a @ May 18 2006, 06:37 AM) [snapback]257443[/snapback]</div>

Yes. The Insight is a near perfect commuter/city car, great for getting 1 or 2 people to work and back over a short/moderate distance. I am not sure any such car has ever been successful in the US......can anybody think of a commuter car which has been successful? Why are these cars not successful?

Although I like the idea, I don't have the spare cash for a car dedicated to commuting and need a car that seats 4, preferrably 5 (think Prius), for family.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(j24816 @ May 18 2006, 10:55 AM) [snapback]257476[/snapback]</div>

I have been thinking about this myself. I like the prius and have a short city commute. But I also want to be able to sit 4 grown people reasonably from time to time so a four door is a must. In the end the Prius was much more attractive to me, as it felt like a real car more then that "kit car" feel you get from the Insight.

This will be the problem of pure EV cars. Too many buyer will feel they need a car that can go any distance. For me and my Fiancee we hope to add a Scion Xb EV car soon, and use my "dirty" prius for any long rides. Similar to what Darell is doing

In the end I think an EV car with a tiny, ultra-light ICE might be the solution. Use EV mode for day-to-day comute but the ICE will charge the batteries when needed on longer ride (though it might never really propel the car much).

A man can dream

<_< Hi Tony.... thanks for the link... VERRRRY INTERESTING.... (As Artie would say on LaughIn)

The position seems to be that fatalities would increase with increased sales of smaller vehicles. Extrapolated, doesn't this imply that we should *ALL* be driving "Sherman Tanks?" It was interesting to note that all but one North Texas congressperson drove big gas-guzzlers and more oil drilling was their answer to gasolene availability and prices. That one congressman drove a Prius, by the way.

I believe our government far too long has bowed to auto manufacturers and oil interests rather than acting in the best interests of us all. The requirements for fuel economy should have been arbitrarily increased many years ago. These, *FIVE YEAR* plans to gain only a few MPGs aren't really an appropriate response. The technology is available and proven. So quit babying the auto manufacturers and oil interests. GET TOUGH NOW! I find 0-60 MPH in 10.6 seconds is more than adequate... and that 45-55 MPG is most welcome.

Most of the serious hypermilers that came to Tour de Sol took one
look at the rally route, with half of it being interstates and the
rest mid- to high-speed highways, and said "no way in a Prius". They
all showed up in Insights. It was like "insight week" out there,
including all the cool mods people have done. There were a few Prii
kicking around but NONE of them actually ran the rally route. Except
me, the day before, to find a checkpoint location and just see how
I would do. With the storms and wikkid headwinds on the interstate
return leg, I only pulled 63.something mpg for the loop. I was
hoping for better, but mother nature wasn't being kind that day.
.
I will remember the Insight as the "hacker's hybrid" -- even though
I've never actually driven one, I've heard a bunch of great stories
about how people have scoped out its control signals and built nifty
add-ons to intercept and change them in creative ways. A lot of the
lore that has grown up around the Insight has also helped me quite
a bit in understanding the Prius, even though they're very different.
.
_H*

The bigger news in the article, to me, is Honda's stated intention to produce a new hybrid smaller---and, hopefully, less expensive---than the Civic Hybrid. If Honda succeeds in also producing its "breakthrough", leaner-burning, higher-MPG 4-cyl. engine to use in the new hybrid, it would almost certainly have MPG ratings higher than the Prius, though probably not as high as the Insight had.

Most importantly, it would be a true 4-passenger small-family/commuter car, hopefully accessible in price to the large segment of wannabe hybrid buyers who can't afford the Prius's $20K+ price tag. I've been saying for a few years now that THAT is a potential ground-breaking market niche to truly make hybrid technology accessible to "the masses".

Honda is long overdue to seriously up the ante in challenging Toyota's hybrids. I hope they do it.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Charles Suitt @ May 18 2006, 01:22 PM) [snapback]257666[/snapback]</div>

On that note, Jean Shepherd once wrote an article in Mad Magazine about what he called "Creeping Meatballism." He said the perfect car for traffic would look like a dodge 'em car, with a thick rubber rim around it.

I don't like the fact the Insight is going. I may not want to buy one, but it did have a niche.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(ghostofjk @ May 19 2006, 06:58 AM) [snapback]257701[/snapback]</div>

Please remember that Toyota is saying they are going to reduce the hybrid premium to half and it is coming in 2008 before new Honda in 2009.
My bet for the base price of next Prius is less than $20k.

Ken@Japan

I think one of the Insight's problems is that like three dealers in the US have one in stock to look at. If you can't look at the car or drive it it makes it hard to want to order one. The Prius suffers from this problem, but to a much lesser extent. At least Toyota dealers get Prius on a regular basis, none of the Honda dealers I contacted or stopped by wanted to have an Insight in their stock for anyone to even look at.

Too bad to see it go though. I rememder back in '99 or '00 going to the Honda dealer to look at them and got to drive one, it was certainly an interesting car. I always thought it looked quite a bit like the EV1.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(cwerdna @ May 18 2006, 03:01 AM) [snapback]257388[/snapback]</div>

After reading this article, it is my opinion that Honda is taking the same approach as US automakers. That is, keep giving the consumer the same crap only disguised as something new. Come on :angry: . Smaller than the current Civic? Personally, I refused to consider the current Civic because it is so small. Where is the innovation? I would like to see the prospective MPG for this car before making my decision, but my distase of Honda after driving one for the past 12 years is that they are small compared to Toyotas.

US automakers don't want to change because their production lines are tooled to make the same crap over and over again. To change costs them a lot of money. This is, or so I have heard, in contrast to an automaker like Toyota where their production lines are built to be flexible. Therefore, Toyota can afford to innovate.

With the next gen Prii rumored to be rated at 94MPG, with lithium batteries, and 240MPG a realizable goal as demonstrated by CalCars, I'd say Toyota is being innovative rather than trying to continually sell the same crap to their customers like US automakers do and now, so it seems, Honda is planning to do. Its no wonder Detroit can't make any money when they refuse to innovate and sell new, up-to-date technology. US automakers continually piss and moan about the cost of making any improvements to the technology. Toyota, on the other hand, is being as I see it, a responsible "corporate citizen" of the Earth by doing something that is good for everyone - with NO upfront complaining about the "expense."

Incidentally, my '94 Acura Integra was and still is able to run on pure alcohol with no modifications. I tried to find it back then, and I guess that I would have no more luck today trying to find it than I did then short of going to the liquor store :blink: . All this garbage Ford and other US automakers are touting about E85 is just more smokescreen crap IMHO.

If the auto industry keeps going the way it is, I have no doubts that Toyota will become the biggest automaker, unless, of course, they get a CEO that was raised and schooled in the US. :lol:

Oh, the EV-1 is *much* sexier and James-Bondier than the Insight.
.
_H*

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Wiyosaya @ May 20 2006, 01:39 AM) [snapback]258094[/snapback]</div>

Smaller than current Civic size does not mean smaller than current Civic inside space.
Anyway, the original announcement does not states the size but price...
http://world.honda.com/news/2006/c060517MidYearCEOSpeech/

Please note that the next Prius target is 40km/L on Japanese 10-15 mode test.
That translates to 94mpg. The current Prius is 35.5km/L, so the next one will be 13% improvement, 62mpg combined.

Also, please note that there were a lot of fire accidents using alcohol in Japan few years ago, especially on Honda cars.
Japanese government forced to stop selling alcohol fuel since then.

Ken@Japan

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Charles Suitt @ May 18 2006, 04:22 PM) [snapback]257666[/snapback]</div>

Not to branch away from the topic, the underlying problem is the fact that American politics is based on campaign financing. Auto mfrs, oil interests or any other special interest group can buy all the influence on lawmaking they want. And the lawmakers keep fooling the US public with lip-service to campaign finance reform accompanying phony laws full of loop-holes.

Is there no incentive for competent, honest individuals to run for office other than payola, whether it's in gifts, "loans", travel perks, or job-insuring campaign contributions?

The Insight was my first ride in a hybrid and eventually guided me to look at and purchase a Prius. Insight was too small and rough riding for my tastes and needs, but it was a leader in a new industry. My friend has been trying to buy an upgraded Insight for a while now, but dealers don't seem to have them and told him they couldn't sell them (not hard to imagine if you don't stock the thing). There are quite a few Insights left on the road here, but they are dwarfed in number next to the ever popular Prius. No matter to me which car was 'first', and in which country. Insight was but one rung on the ladder leading up and away from ICE-only and toward a new future. Those who bought them were early adoptors of a new technology and their purchases told the auto companies (well the ones with vision) that there is/was a new paradigm. Long live the Insight!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(ken1784 @ May 19 2006, 03:14 PM) [snapback]258189[/snapback]</div>

I stand corrected.

That is an improvement, though, and, IMHO, is a further indication that Toyota is interested in improving things rather than living in and selling the past.

Interesting. I guess that the US govt. has not heard of this, and we, in the US, should expect E85 (85% alcohol, 15% gas) to be a "hot item" on the streets. :lol:

What with new Insight sales being so tepid compared to the Gen III, might we smell de ja vu?

Honda Kills the Insight

After all, it wouldn't be the first time, right? How would the Insight fans rationalize-away that scenerio? Could Insight fans spin the new Insight death being due to us Prius owning liars giving it a bad rap? After all that's what Insight owners claim Gen III prius do about their higher mpg's

http://priuschat.com/forums/gen-iii...da-insight-owners-talking-about-recently.html
.