Too bad for Honda but good for us consumers. It shows that just saying "hybrid" is not enough to sell, you also need to build a great (commuter) car not based on the old "horse power" stigma.

I hope Honda find success with their honda fit (sized) hybrid. I also hope they have a new hybrid system (or battery system) in the works that will not only work on light-weight cars. Their current hybrid system was to large extent a weight reduction exercise.

I'm positively surprised that we consumers also show the manufacturers that we're now seriously interested in fuel economy and pollution and that the importance of horse power is starting to fade. We're also educated enough not to simply buy any car with the word "hybrid" stamped on it.

From what I have seen only the fuel efficient hybrids seem to sell; the accord failed, the highlander sell mostly because it's the only medium sized SUV on the market (to me the upcoming new Saturn Vue hybrid could compete with the highlander). The Ford Escape had/has interesting technology but Ford picked a bad model to compete with. GM's current "hybrids" seem to be rightfully ignored.

This will give Toyota, Honda, Ford, GM and everyone else motivation to produce fuel efficient hybrids. There are still large holes in Toyota's hybrid line-up where a fuel efficient hybrid could enter (like small cars, station wagons, mini-vans and SUVs). Question is who will enter where? Seems like Honda and GM are our best bets but that Toyota can respond relatively quickly.

I don't think anyone can today seriously deny the success of Toyota's hybrid synergy drive is having. Other hybrid models (might) fail but the Prius and Camry hybrid sales are strong and getting stronger. I also think that this fast growing hybrid market is too large to ignore or conceding to Toyota. At least I hope so or I will have to buy another Toyota.

"We have seen that what interests hybrid consumers is ultimate fuel economy," Naughton said.

Well, Duh!

I agree with all of the above. I was very disappointed when I heard that the Accord Hybrid would be designed with "fuel efficiency" somewhere down the list, below "performance anxiety".

I actually don't think fuel economy is what ultimately interests hybrid consumers.

To me the car first has to be "green", this means that current diesels don't fulfill that criteria. Once they pollute as little as possible then I will look at gas mileage.

I'm not convinced that next generation diesels will be clean enough (but I haven't researched). Can they really reach the PZEV status of the PRius? If they are then I will buy one, if not I will buy another hybrid.

To me, it seems clear that electric drive, is the best propulsion system no mather what as it frees up how we generate the power to propel the car; be it on-board ultra-clean diesel engines (running at a constant RPM), a small clean gas engine; having enough batteries on-board to charge it at home; using compressed air as the generating system or (what to me seems the hardest alternative) hydrogen and I'm sure many other crazy ideas.

I hope/think battery technology will be the best option for most commuter cars and this is the effort I will try to support when buying my next car.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(SomervillePrius @ Jun 5 2007, 08:57 AM) [snapback]455710[/snapback]</div>

I'm pretty sure fuel economy is what initially interests some hybrid vehicle drivers, but definitely not all of us. I, like you, was seeking a car with cleaner emissions / more advanced technology than the standard internal combustion engine. After test driving the Prius, I felt it was the best choice. Only after that point did I realize how many other benefits and blessings come with owning a hybrid such as the Prius. Fuel economy is only one slice of the whole pie.

To be fair, we have to remember that Honda had a secondary mission for the Accord when it first came out. At the time, hybrid technology was perceived as inflexible and suited ONLY for fuel economy purposes. As a result of that, most folks considered a typical hybrid vehicle, a gutless and lame performer unsuited for North American tastes. The Accord basically slapped that notion around by proving that hybrid technology is adaptable to its main mission wether fuel economy, performance or both (the Accord clearly failed on the third one).

Second, Honda never possessed the manufaturing capacity to produce the Accord Hybrid in large numbers. Heck, they are already hurting by just trying to keep up with the Civic Hybrid production. Granted, there was never a surplus of unsold HCH's like there has been with the Accord for the last couple of years and that is a confirmation of what so many have said, that the design philosophy of hybrid performance is not a sustainable one going forward. Just look at the Lexus hybrid sales performance- that should be quite a parallel.


Cheers;


MSantos

deleted double post

They tanked (pun intended) because most Accord buyers are too "practical" to pay more for hybrid technology. My parents would be a good example. They bought an Accord as a reliable second vehicle to an SUV. The target market for the Accord is just not interested.

One of the main problems I have always had with Honda's hybrids (excluding the Insight) was that they look JUST LIKE the non-hybrid versions.

If I'm going to buy new exciting technology, I want it to look new and exciting! I want everyone to know I'm doing something good for me and the Earth.

Honda just made them look too damn boring/similar...

(It's also a complaint I have about the Camry hybrid, but at least the Prius is beautiful and unique! )

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Miss_Taz @ Jun 5 2007, 04:44 PM) [snapback]455976[/snapback]</div>

Very well put. The Prius feels Jetsons like. & When I ride in my other car, it feels like Flintstones.

Interesting points. I agree that the accord, highlander and lexus hybrids has done a good job expelling the myth that hyrbids are slow. Also, as most of us have found, the prius while no rocket ship is far from slow. It easily keeps up with traffic even in aggressive driving cities like Boston.

wonder if I can get one cheap. would actually consider it if the HyCord came with a manual tranny.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Danny @ Jun 5 2007, 04:02 PM) [snapback]455987[/snapback]</div>

Umm, I'm not following you. Isn't the Accord pretty close to the Camry? And the TCH is doing well. So it is the right car, just the wrong approach. Or are you saying leave the family sedan market to Toyota and pick a different market for their hybrid? Small station wagon/minivan seems like a good untapped segment to me.

But I think the Accord, in the end, was a decent effort for two reasons: 1) you have to test the waters and see what works. As posters have said, consumers have shown the acumen to demand fuel economy from a hybrid, not just the label. Now car companies can provide better cars to the marketplace. Costly exercise, but still useful. 2) It showed the naysayers that a hybrid doesn't have to be weak, if for some reason you did want the power.

The link to the GM article in there was also interesting...I wonder what the numbers will be for the Malibu hybrid.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(nerfer @ Jun 5 2007, 04:32 PM) [snapback]456046[/snapback]</div>

Hopefully we'll be able to tell. GM still isn't breaking out their hybrids on their monthly sales reports so it's hard to know how they're doing.

I think what Danny's saying is that if Honda had gone for economy in the Accord, instead of power, they just might be ahead of Toyota in that class of vehicle since the Accord hybrid was on the market well before the TCH.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(tripp @ Jun 5 2007, 05:50 PM) [snapback]456066[/snapback]</div>

Based on the detail I've seen, they couldn't. The addition of an electric motor to a straight 4-cylinder engine made it physically too long to fit inside the cavity available.

Of course in the long run, how would they compete anyway?

The "assist" hybrid motor is tied directly to the engine, is very small, and isn't liquid cooled. So taking advantage of increased battery-capacity later isn't realistic.

I know this is generalizing, but it's pretty close to the mark:

Non-risktaking bean counters buy Accords. Increased performance is not a plus. If Honda couldn't make it get far better MPG for less money, then the Accord buyer is not interested in the higher MSRP and perceived risk associated with new technologies.

Camry buyers are looking for practicality and style, making them a better match for hybrid technology.

Honda should have known better. A few focus groups would have panned this out.

I'm surprised it lasted this long. It was a real "oinker". The week I bought my Prius I had stopped in to a Honda dealer and they were pushing the hell out of the Accord Hybrid. I'm a big guy and even though the Accord is classed as a full-sized car there was not enough room between the steering wheel and the front seat back. I had no problem fitting in the Prius. On top of that, it was way over priced and they wouldn't deal.

Nope, the door didn't even come close to hitting me in the butt on the way out of that dealer.