How to tell a troll

Discussion in 'PriusChat Website Questions' started by TonyPSchaefer, Nov 17, 2006.

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    TonyPSchaefer Your Friendly Moderator

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    Consider this "part 2" of "Tony's instructional Guide to Happier PriusChatting for Intelligent People Wishing to Enjoy Themselves Without Being Offended." I might have to tweak that title a bit. But the point here is that I am attempting to appeal to the common intelligence of Priuschat. Most of you are responsible and mature individuals capable of making your own decisions. On Priuschat, just like in real life, you will be presented with multiple possible actions and reactions; it is your responsibility to act accordingly.

    We have been awash with trolls/flamers/spammer lately. I'm not sure why. Possibly because Priuschat has become a large international community and a larger target. They seem to come in waves. We Moderators can always tell when something's amiss because we start getting "post reports" at about one every two minutes (seriously). I personally thank you for your diligence and for bringing it to our attention so we can clean it up quickly - provided we're online.

    First, let's get some definitions.
    Troll :: There are variations of the definition, but basically, the one that applies is when someone registers to an online forum (Priuscaht) and starts making posts serving only to upset the community. These might be obscene posts or images.

    Flamer :: This is simply someone looking to pick a fight. The person might start a thread flat-out attacking the Prius, Prius drivers, Toyota, hybrid technology, or whatever. They do this simply to draw you in and get your blood to boil. Why on Earth would you ever even consider giving them the pleasure of a response? On the other hand, sometimes an otherwise cordial debate between otherwise courteous members will escalate into a "flame war" in which the members are all-out insulting each other. That's frowned upon also but will usually only result in a "hey calm down" sort of thing.

    Spam :: Ya know it when you see it.

    You might be asking, "how would I know if the person making the post is a Troll/Flamer/Spammer and not someone honestly looking for open dialog?" That's usually pretty simple. Spammers/Flamers/Trolls don't want to waste their time building a friendship with our members. Therefore, they make their identities extremely obvious in their very first post. When you see a new thread that strikes you as insulting or off-the-wall, look at the number of posts listed for the member (it's under their name on the left). If that number is less than ten (10), it means that they have just joined and are creating a handful of threads just to stir things up. Please report that thread and then leave. Responding to such a thread is an absolute waste of time.

    If you are in an established thread and a new post seems inflammatory or off-the-wall, look at the number of posts listed for that member. The same rule applies. Sometimes trolls and flamers will bounce from thread to thread insulting people and being rude in a very short period of time. The time you spend attempting to craft a well-thought-out and intelligent reply will be wasted. When you are laying on your deathbed, you will wish you had spent more time with your family and less time replying to trolls.

    One more way to identify trolls and flamers is through their screen names. They are usually not as clever as the average Priuschatter. Rather than "Pinto_Girl" or "Wolfman" they register as "I.HATE.ALL.PRIUS" or perhaps "PRIUS_DRIVERS_MUST_DIE". Yeah, that's a dead give away.

    So let me make this very clear: [a-hem] WHEN YOU SEE A TROLL / SPAM / FLAME, RUN - DON'T WALK - RUN AWAY. You can choose to report the post or you can simply ignore the post. Either way, you should not participate in the thread or you should choose to ignore that post in the thread. Experienced Priuschatters know that reporting a post is as simple as clicking the [Report] button and typing "spam" or "flame" or "troll" and clicking [Send]. We don't need a lengthy explanation and automatically get a link to the post where we will act accordingly.

    If you participate in these "discussions" you will be rewarded with exactly what you deserve while some idiot somewhere is laughing at just how gullible you are.
    TonyPSchaefer, Nov 17, 2006
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    efusco Troll Slayer

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    You can tell a troll....but you can't tell him much.
    efusco, Nov 17, 2006
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    Jeannie Proud Prius Granny

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    Thanks, Tony. I've reported spam a number of times - usually for porno or for drug sites - and you and the other admins promply deal with them. All of us appreciate that.

    I've also noticed in reading threads that there are times when a 'suspect troll/flamer' is active, and you 'guys' are very tolerant as long as people don't descend into obscenity or personal attacks. Again, thanks for running a good site!
    Jeannie, Nov 17, 2006
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    Chuck. Honda Enzyte Driver

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    Thank you for the info, Tony.

    Hope it's OK to link the Wikapedia article on trolling. (some of the external links at the end might be helpful)

    I'd like to suggest there are "sophisticated trollers" that fall between Tony's definition of Troller and Flamer. Their intro is not so offensive as to provoke an immediate banning, but a siege of legitimate controversies intended to disrupt. Stuff like battery toxicity, different hybrid systems, are hybrids real green or durable. This malcontent typically NEVER talks about his vehicle with 99+% of his posts generating discontent - a lot more moderator headache than the one-post "Hybrids Suck".

    Thank you for keeping these losers in check. :)
    Chuck., Nov 17, 2006
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    KMO New Member

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    What bothers me more is our persistent long-term trolls. They seem to come in waves - Mystery Squid used to be the main problem, currently it's dbermanmd.

    Occasional one-post trolls aren't too much of a problem compared to the nut-jobs who saturate the "New Posts" list with endless trolling threads. At least the one-post trolls are more likely to talk about the Prius...
    KMO, Nov 17, 2006
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    qbee42 My other car is a boat

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(TonyPSchaefer @ Nov 17 2006, 10:31 AM) [snapback]350746[/snapback]</div>
    I am not! Or maybe I am; I'm not sure?

    Tom
    qbee42, Nov 17, 2006
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    Allannde Just a Senior

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(KMO @ Nov 17 2006, 08:25 AM) [snapback]350808[/snapback]</div>
    I TOTALLY agree. The reason I do so is that I have discovered that after much thought, I do not regard PC as a community any longer. It is interesting and often helpful, but no longer primarily a community of like minded people. The TIVO community which is 6 times larger is such a site and has come to grips with this problem.
    Allannde, Nov 17, 2006
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    Dan-Wolfe New Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(qbee42 @ Nov 17 2006, 11:43 AM) [snapback]350828[/snapback]</div>

    You know, I used to think I was indecisive, but now I'm not so sure I was.
    Dan-Wolfe, Nov 17, 2006
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    VinceDee New Member

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    Thanks for the heads up Tony.

    I've been a member of numerous discussion forums over the years and have run/operated my own, so I'm very experienced in having to deal with trolls/flamers/spammers.

    I did two things yesterday when the trolls came a callin':

    1. Reported them as one should (btw, you guys are awesome. You handled them efficiently and quickly, even deleting some of the PriusChatters posts that responded to them, which is fine by me).

    2. I occasionally responded to them. Yes, I know, you don't want us to do that but sometimes it's just so fun to irritate them that I have to say something to get their goat. Besides, they insulted our Pinto Girl and that annoyed me.

    Vince
    VinceDee, Nov 17, 2006
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    daronspicher New Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(KMO @ Nov 17 2006, 10:25 AM) [snapback]350808[/snapback]</div>
    Are you trying to replace Tony's definition of a troll with your own.

    By your statement, a troll is anyone who disagrees with you consistantly over time.

    MS and DbMd both have consistant views and intelligent things to say. They contribute a lot here, it's a shame you have to label them as a troll. On the upside, neither of them will run away into the woods because you called them "the main problem"
    daronspicher, Nov 17, 2006
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    Schmika New Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(daronspicher @ Nov 17 2006, 03:18 PM) [snapback]350903[/snapback]</div>
    I second this....obviously, to many PC'ers, I am a troll as well.

    Look, Tony defined a troll, let's find another name for the so-called "persistent trolls". Let's see, EricGo likes "fascist" for me. I think Daniel has said I am a fanatic.

    BTW, my name for these would be "liberal", or "dogmatic", or just plain "hard-headed".

    Folks, many of us with over 1000 posts (or even 500) would not still be here if the mods considered us trolls.
    Schmika, Nov 17, 2006
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    VinceDee New Member

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    Regular members here are not likely trolls. They may post outrageous things, and you may disagree vehemently with them, but they are not trolls.

    Vince
    VinceDee, Nov 17, 2006
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    Chuck. Honda Enzyte Driver

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    If a member talks about their vehicle at least occasionally and more is known about them than a minimal profile, I would not put the troller label on them.
    Chuck., Nov 17, 2006
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    TonyPSchaefer Your Friendly Moderator

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    Hats off to Tag on that one. He was nailing them just as fast as the reports were coming in.

    Yeah, that's just wrong..
    TonyPSchaefer, Nov 17, 2006
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    Tempus New Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(daronspicher @ Nov 17 2006, 01:18 PM) [snapback]350903[/snapback]</div>
    Amen

    Too much of this around. Anyone who disagrees with me is a (substitute aspersion here).

    The two accused are in no way remotely trolls, and it's sad to see someone trying to silence opinions they don't like by mis-using labels and procedures meant to deal with those who truely only wish to disrupt.



    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Allannde @ Nov 17 2006, 12:07 PM) [snapback]350850[/snapback]</div>
    Scary

    Scary that you think that only 'like-minded' people should be allowed to exist in a community.
    Tempus, Nov 17, 2006
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    livelychick Missin' My Prius

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(VinceDee @ Nov 17 2006, 01:31 PM) [snapback]350917[/snapback]</div>
    They are knowingly and happily labeled as flamers, but not trolls.
    livelychick, Nov 17, 2006
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    Allannde Just a Senior

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Tempus @ Nov 17 2006, 11:00 AM) [snapback]350951[/snapback]</div>
    Sorry if that disturbed you.

    A community to me is a place where the participants are welcome as opposed to a place where it feels hostile. I have absolutely no desire to restrict the opinions of others.

    At one point I revealed my age. One poster used graphics to belittle those who he percieved to be of my age to make fun of me personally. That had nothing to do with opinion and everything to do with hostility. That qualifies as a troll to me and it was not a new member.

    This is what I meant by by "community of like minded people".
    Allannde, Nov 17, 2006
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    viking31 New Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Tempus @ Nov 17 2006, 02:00 PM) [snapback]350951[/snapback]</div>
    Scary? no, not really. This forum/community is not a public entity. It is most likely run and supported with private funds, lots of volunteer work and effort from the moderators and especially Danny himself. Therefore they have the right to exclude anyone they wish. Don't like the politics or the way this board is run, then simply start one yourself and set your own rules and regs.

    Danny could tomorrow lock everyone but a select few from this board and it would be perfectly legal and within his rights. But Danny knows that would be a foolish move, because income from these forums (dare I say there are 10's of thousands on the internet) is generated by advertisers. Less people looking at the ads, then less money from the advertisers. Just simple ECO 101. People who don't agree with your point of view may be a PIA, but they got to "eat" too (I even bought a BT plate because of PC!).

    Now if this forum was a public taxpayer supported entity, then I agree with you wholeheartedly, your point would stand.

    Rick
    #4 2006
    viking31, Nov 17, 2006
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    Walker1 New Member

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    Did I fall asleep and miss ???? about Trolls? What set everyone off? I must be missing the main drift of this post.
    Walker1, Dec 29, 2006
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    TonyPSchaefer Your Friendly Moderator

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    You didn't miss anything. It's just that not everyone is internet forum savvy. You can see from the date of the original post (Nov 17 2006) that I started it three months ago. Back then, we had a day of bad trolling. If I'm correct, that was the one where a group of people from a hotrod forum decided to launch an orchestrated attack against Priuschat. The other Moderators traced them back to their original forum and let their Moderators deal with them as they saw fit. But I digress.

    The point of this thread is to make sure people who aren't internet savvy understand that there are people who seem to have nothing better to do than messy up the normally calm Priuschat waters. You are not obligated to respond to those people and we suggest that no one does.

    That's it. Just an education lesson.
    TonyPSchaefer, Dec 29, 2006
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