How will the Chevrolet Volt be better than a Toyota Prius plug-in hybrid?

I am actually pro-electrification. If I drive a Volt instead of Prius, my carbon footprint would be lower using average NY electricity. Prius PHV would lower it even further and for my commute pattern, Prius PHV fits me better.

Driving plugins won't save me money (due to the rate I pay) but it will be better for the environment. When I am in the market for a new car, Prius PHV will be on top of the list. Well, that also depends how Ford prices C-Max Energi. I also have an eye on it.

Prius most traded-in car for Volt and Leaf, because of HOV stickers?

We should also add that may envioronmentalists care about sustainability, and using electricity instead of gasoline is a great way to use less of the mot scarce resource.

This is a bogus stat. I doubt anyone will buy a volt over a prius simply because of less ghg, but lets look where they are buying them. California is number 1 where the volt produces less. Texas is number 2 where most that are environmental already have switched to wind or will in the near future. Even in your city the volt emits lower ghg emissions. The US grid is much cleaner than 2007 today and steadily improving.

It looks to me that as a group they are producing less ghg, unhealthy tail pipe pollutions, and using a great deal less scarce oil. One trade off they have made is a smaller car. Many are happy in a smaller car, I would not call a camry to volt a down grade.

Beyond the fact that that is prdiction from 2007 data, that presumes the Prius owners are average. Changes are very good they are in Cali (where Prius was high seller and Volt has sole 25% of all its cars), in which case its a reduction of CO2.

And the "downgrade" statement ignores the fact that someone interested in reducing GHG can choose to "upgrade" by buying green power.

If carbon emissions are a person's primary with personal transport, then they should get a used, late '90s to early 2000s diesel, and run it on WVO/biodiesel. The fuel is mostly carbon neutral, and they won't be responsible for the emissions from the production of a new vehicle.

Focusing just on carbon is short sighted(or should it be far sighted). By that lone metric, a coal plant carbon sequestering could be rated greener than wind with natural gas back up. We shouldn't worry about the NOx, SOx, mercury, and radio isotopes. Carbon has made their effect to us and the environment moot.

WVO/ biodiesel is pretty carbon neutral. This can't be said of the Volt.

DBCassidy

As I had pointed out before this was using old data (based on 2007), and the grid has been getting much greener.
Did not want argue much until I finished my new analysis.

I've been tracking the grid's greenness and using EIA data (see this thread) for April 2012, the US GRID average is now down to 491 g/CO2, which means the 2013 Volt which gets 38miles per charge and 37mile EPA average on gas, using a 64% utility factor would have .64*13.5*491/38+.36*8887/37 = 198 grams/mile
A 2011 (like mine) would be .64*13*491/35+.36*8887/37 = 203 grams/mile

So while I don't believe the "average grid" has much meaning for an individual driver, the "average volt" per EPA will produce less CO2 than than a Prius.

I cannot do a proper PiP model since we dont know how much gas is used in the 11miles, but assuming its .025 gallons (to make the 95MPGe work with 3kWh charging), (so a upper bound), the PiP would be .22*(3*491 + .028*8887)/11 + .78*8887/50 = 173 which is still a bit better than a standard utility factor Volt. (And if you start comparing non-standards its all over the place).

So those living in coal-dominated regions should be opting for their own purchase of greener energy sources.
Even if its only a partial offset of the electricity, it still reduces the CO2.

Note that this thread showed things getting cleaner and cleaner for electric car owners.
Coal producers find themselves in a hard place | PriusChat

That is one of two thread on the coal production.. note the statement in the end of your quote.. that it might be down to 30% by end of decade. Its almost there now (32%) and if you look at the charts in my other thread
The Greening of the Grid: Nuke+Renewables > NG == Coal, sooner than expected | PriusChat
Its on a steep decline..

My post above was putting that data into context of this thread and converting to gCO2/mile so others could better see what I've meant about the grid getting cleaner much faster than many expected.

Well, here is one check more for the "volt" list.. the Plug in Prius only earned 4 star crash safety. The Volt, like the regular liftback Prius, has a 5 star crash rating.

More info and videos at

2012 Toyota Prius Plug-in Hybrid Gets 4-Star NHTSA Safety Rating

Interesting. I was quite surprised at the difference between the classic Prius and the PiP.
Speaking of NHTSA crash tests, I loved the comment by Tesla that when they ran the standard 30mph rear end crash test, Tesla requested they do it again at 50mph.
I keep wondering if that was the first time the had that request

Wow, I read a lot of this thread, pretty tough to follow everything. I test drove the Volt the other day and it was really nice and I think it will work out pretty well with my 29 mile round trip commute (20 miles on highway). I don't take long trips very often. I have seen some really good pricing on the volt and with incentives it should be the same price as the PIP. The biggest pluses as I see them are how nice it rides on the highway and here the speeds are 65+. I also get HOV access (which mostly flow at 70mph). Most of the time it will be only me and then the other times just one other person, so I don't need too much room. There is not really a plug I can use at work but I think they are working on something. Or I may just go with a regular prius hatchback. They don't have the PIP here yet.

If there is a better thread to ask this in please let me know.

Many folks travel 70+ in the Volt and it performs very well. I just went on a 600 mile trip last weekend with mine. I typically drive electric miles only as a commuter but it sure was comfortable and handy to take the Volt. There is a popular/friendly forum specific to the Volt. GM-Volt: Chevy Volt Electric Car Site

Yeah I have been reading there and here for quite some time now. I wanted to see what the guys here had to say. I did about 15 miles on the highway during the test drive and got up to 85 or so and the car was super smooth and quiet. It didn't seem to use much of the EV. I have not taken a Gen 3 out for a test drive yet, but will soon.

My daily comute is 32-38 (depending on route) and its all battery even in winter.. unless I take longer side trips. So charging at work would not be necessary .. I can sometimes but its not worth the effort unless I know I will go much father than normal. With your 29mile RT you'll have plenty of juice to spare. I've had it in battery mode up to the speed limiter (101) and routinely drive highway speeds (75+) in EV mode. No problem with mountains and good in the snow. If you want to see real-world performance data look at voltstats.net e.g. Volt Stats: Utah Volts! shows the data for 5 Utah volts.