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How would you move a Prius without power

Discussion in 'Gen II Prius Main Forum' started by AussieOwner, Nov 1, 2007.

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  1. AussieOwner

    AussieOwner Active Member

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    A question came up on another forum about how you would go moving a Prius around an exhibition hall without powering up the car.

    The scenario is that the car cannot have the engine running while it is inside the exhibition hall, but there is a need to move the car from the entrance door to where the display is being setup, and then position it on the display - how do you move it?

    I have seen one answer in that provided that you go into EV mode (at least we here in Australia have the ability to do that), but that will not stop the engine starting. Two reasons that I have already encountered - cold start, the engine needs to warm up regardless of EV or not, and when the SOC gets low, the ICE kicks in to avoid depleting the battery. So this solution does not give an answer. :(

    From reading a couple of other recent threads on towing a Prius, you cannot tow a Prius with the front wheels on the ground as they are permanently (?) in gear. I thought of putting the car into neutral, but to do that you need to power up, which means that the ICE can kick in for the above reasons, and if you power off, then the car automatically puts itself into park. :(

    So, apart from putting the car on some form of dolly to move it around, any other suggestions?
  2. efusco

    efusco Troll Slayer Staff Member

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    With an EV button the ICE will not go through warm up if you hit it in the first 7 seconds...unless the battery SOC gets below ~45%.
    But it would be pretty easy to put it in Neutral in IG ON mode and roll it that way.
  3. eestlane

    eestlane Member

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    As I recall from "lurking" on this forum for some years, someone suggested pulling the parking pawl motor fuse. Thus, you could start the car outside the exhibit hall, put it in drive while holding the brake (or have the parking brake applied), pull the parking motor fuse under the hood in the box on the driver's side of the car, shut off the car and PUSH! Your pushing may slowly rotate the electric motors but should cause no harm.

    The ICE is connected to the power split device, but is not "solidly" connected to the wheels. Therefore, the ICE should not neccessarily rotate when pushing.
  4. efusco

    efusco Troll Slayer Staff Member

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    Just being dumb here...Just put the car into Ready mode then into neutral before the ICE starts....push away then shut down from neutral....Brain working slowly tonight.

    The ICE can't start when the car's in Neutral.
  5. Sarge

    Sarge Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(efusco @ Nov 1 2007, 10:36 PM) [snapback]533680[/snapback]</div>

    This is the key. To the OP, if you press the Power button twice (without pushing the brake), you will put the car in "Ignition On" mode, just like turning the key to the first notch in a traditional car, without turning the key to "Start". This will NOT start the engine, but will power up all other systems including the ability to shift into N. In fact, Park and Neutral are the only settings you can put the "transmission" into while in this mode.
    1 person likes this.
  6. patsparks

    patsparks An Aussie perspective

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    Well I didn't know that, thankyou, I'll go try it.
  7. tkil

    tkil New Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Sarge @ Nov 1 2007, 06:59 PM) [snapback]533689[/snapback]</div>

    Just to nit-pick, most cars have two notches (corresponding to the Prius' "accessory" and "ignition on" modes), with a third momentary-on notch for engaging the starter.

    One of the North American domestic brands used to have the "accessory" location be one notch "back" on the key, with "ignition on" being the first notch forward (and "start" being past that). Maybe that's what you are talking about. (I want to say Ford, but it's been a very long time...)

    Most current cars use an "off -> acc -> ign-on -> start" progression -- at least most of the ones I've dealt with lately. :)
  8. patsparks

    patsparks An Aussie perspective

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    Yep, the turn the key backward for accessories is an older setup. My 1968 Toyota Crown has it as would most cars that had the ignition switch in the dashboard before it moved to the steering column and controlled a steering lock. Even after that I recall the early Holden Commodores (GM) had the same backward for accessories switch.
    Most cars with accessories position before on position will unlock the steering in the accessories position but not sure they unlock the gear shift in accessories position if they lock the gear shift. Cars with a gearshift lock normally have a manual override for this lock. Yes this is kind of off topic.
  9. AussieOwner

    AussieOwner Active Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Sarge @ Nov 2 2007, 01:59 PM) [snapback]533689[/snapback]</div>

    This will teach me to think a little further than power on means ready to run - I keep forgetting that there is even an alternative to fully powered up.

    Thanks to all for the answers - I did know that I would get a workable solution from PC :D
  10. Woodcote

    Woodcote New Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(AussieOwner @ Nov 2 2007, 04:21 AM) [snapback]533773[/snapback]</div>

    Couldn't you just insert your keyless entry box into the slot for emergency power?
  11. zenMachine

    zenMachine Just another Onionhead

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(efusco @ Nov 1 2007, 09:48 PM) [snapback]533684[/snapback]</div>

    Somehow I think this belongs in the "Most Obscure Factoid" thread...

    :)
  12. lefat1

    lefat1 Fat Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Sarge @ Nov 1 2007, 10:59 PM) [snapback]533689[/snapback]</div>

    and then you can push the car?
  13. hobbit

    hobbit Senior Member

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    As detailed, getting to engine-stays-off neutral is easy. What's
    much more interesting is getting there if you have no 12V, and/or
    leaving it still free to roll after losing or removing all 12V power.
    A partial answer is in the training slides:
    [​IMG]
    which a> prevents the pawl actuator from firing it back into place
    locked, and b> causes the rest of the car to become really unhappy
    about losing that functionality, but that's easy to reset later.
    However, one might want to leave things in that state for a show-
    floor environment where someone *else* might need to move the car
    and doesn't know all the ACC/IG-ON/READY subtlety -- you can just
    tell them to unset the parking brake, push as needed, and then
    reapply the parking brake to hold.
    .
    _H*
  14. Sarge

    Sarge Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(tkil @ Nov 2 2007, 01:38 AM) [snapback]533750[/snapback]</div>

    I hadn't checked back on this thread for some time...

    tkil, your clarification is exactly correct, and that was my thought process. As others have already posted, my implication was to turn the key to the "ON" position, which is sometimes the first notch, sometimes the second notch, depending on how the ignition is designed on that particular car. I should have been more specific... ;)
  15. wileec

    wileec Junior Member

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    This brings up the quetion of what you can do if the elictrical system fails. After an accident the shop missed something and my wifes died leaving the parking lot NO POWER at all it was stoped and there was NO moving it. There has to be a way to get to neutral with out powering up, I would think.
  16. daveleeprius

    daveleeprius Heh heh heh you think so?

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(tkil @ Nov 2 2007, 01:38 AM) [snapback]533750[/snapback]</div>

    My parents 1975 GM Olds Delta 88 was like this.
  17. David Beale

    David Beale Senior Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(wileec @ Nov 12 2007, 01:01 PM) [snapback]538548[/snapback]</div>

    Not that I know of. If the 12V battery is dead or disconnected, you cannot engage "neutral". You have to put the front wheels on dollies to move the car. Or you have to do a mechanical modification, such as messing with the park pawl actuator. Or you have to connect an external 12V battery to the "jump terminal". Which is what I'd do - it's simple and quick.
  18. lefat1

    lefat1 Fat Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(David Beale @ Nov 13 2007, 12:23 PM) [snapback]538936[/snapback]</div>

    so if your stuck in the middle of a road, no power, cars screaming by from all directions (hypothetical) you have to wait for a tow truck that can put the front wheels on a dolley????? :unsure: what if the cops come to assist by pushing you out of the way? :eek:
  19. ouldatsun

    ouldatsun New Member

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    Sorry to revive this thread again folks!!

    I have a 2007 UK spec Prius that I bought flood damaged. It hasn't been repaired as yet but I need to get the pawl off so I can move the car around the yard by pushing/towing it.

    The car can get power by connecting the 12v battery. When it's connected the alarm comes on immediately and car seems to be immobilised. Pressing the power button once with the key in turns the light green and a few normal warning lights come in the display - parking brake on, ABS light etc. When pressed again the light turns red but everything else lights up - odometer, trip clock etc. The 4x gear selection mode lights in the cluster all illuminate but are flashing. When I move the gear lever it has no effect and the car will not come out of park no matter what I do.

    On another prius forum it says to remove a 30amp fuse labelled "PCON" which is located 2nd one down under the long white plastic box with transparent lid in the fuse/relay box under the bonnet - but mine has a 25amp fuse here labelled ABS-1 (perhaps this is because mine is a UK car??) Anyway, removing this makes no difference. I have also tried removing the 30amp relay labelled PCON and all other fuses labelled PCON but no difference - the front wheels remain locked to the ground.

    All I want to do is disable the pawl so I can shift the car around - please help!!!
  20. KMO

    KMO New Member

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    Removing PCON only stops the car from moving the pawl, so you can shut the car down while leaving it in neutral. The pawl needs power to move in either direction.

    If the pawl's engaged, and the system is refusing to let you shift into N, you'll need to mechanically disengage it. I seem to recall that there's a procedure for this in the technical handbook, but I no longer have a copy to hand. Maybe someone with a copy can have a look? It may be worth you paying for your own subscription - it sounds like you might need it...
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