"Is Toyota making money on the Prius?

Toyota is in business to make money and this generation Prius will be profitable sooner than the last generation Prius. Economies of scale, especially with the unanticipated volume of the new Prius, will make that happen even earlier than initially projected."

That what I thought is the main reason for backlog.
In case Prius has been profitable already, to ramp up production (e.g. switch some capacity etc.) would be relatively easy (and painless).

Right, it costs $20,100. :lol: That's why despite "economies of scale" profitability still not reached.

In reality we may never know real cost to Toyota, so let's not speculate.

Prius is not profitable yet despite the fact Toyota charging 15-25% more in Europe, Australia and even Japan (ex taxes) THAN US! Compare average prices weighted by region volumes. :idea: Do the math, Danny. :idea: 10% loss to subsidized US price could be on the low side.

However, it's obvious to me that Toyota is more interested to sell presumably profitable upscale Lexus RX400h in the USA than to increase supply of money-loosing Priuses.

It's just business.

Looks like Toyota basically put out a "Prius FAQ" Press Release.

Good! We can point people to this article to answer a variety of commonly-asked questions. Maybe a pointer from the PriusChat FAQ.

Actually, I give them points for this release:

I don't understand which "arguement" you're tired of, Doc.


By refusing to be reasonably critical of Toyota, by "evangelizing" Prius you do more harm than good to the object of your worship in my view.

It's just a car, folks.

Umm, but aren't you speculating that they're losing money

I'm not an automotive industry expert, but my guess is that there are two general sources of cost to build a prius. The first is to create a factory / assembly line that can make the car and the second is materials / labor / etc. to build each car. In other words, some costs are volume-based, but others aren't. Thus, in the beginning, before you've even built the first car, you're not making a profit. The idea is that if the car is successful, then over time you make back the overhead of the assembly line in small profits per car. I recognize that companies often lose money on an intial product in the hopes that they'll make it up in some other way (give away the razor, sell the blades), but I don't think that applies to Toyota here.

Of course, that's all just speculation on my part. In any case, it's a good little official FAQ.

By forcing a SHORT-TERM only point-of-view, your argument simply doesn't apply. Sorry, but expecting to reach the end-state so quickly isn't realistic.

Please look at the LONG-TERM plan instead.

An entirely new product, designed from scratch, is entitled to several years of market-building.

People are just beginning to understand what the potential of hybrid technology is now, in 2004. In 2003, most believed hybrids could only be small & slow. In 2002, people thought you had to plug-in to recharge the battery-pack. In 2001, people didn't even know what the heck a hybrid was. That's actually pretty rapid progress. Just think what market-potential 2005 will bring. Planning on high-volume production & sales will finally be realistic. Doing it any earlier would have meant risking the entire investment. Waiting didn't cost them squat. They still made loads of profit from the corporation as a whole, where their competition continued to report losses.

Long-Term.

Think about it.

As I have said. How about calculating the cost of publicity Toyota has gotten world-wide for the Prius if they had to pay for it as advertising.

Not only have they gotten an immense amount of free publicity, but they have managed to tie the hybrid vehicle concept to the Toyota Brand in the minds of a huge number of people.

Priceless

To prevent further misinterpretation of my posts:

1. Toyota, without any doubts, is the best business in automotive industry. Globally. OK? No question. Making more money as most of their peers COMBINED.
2. Their long term strategy is very well thought, planned, funded and executed. Really. No argument.
3. Toyota one of the most technically advanced companies. Their R&D is probably second to none.

However (enough free Toyota advertising), my interests as a customer and Toyota's interests are not the same. It's clear.
Toyota knows very well how to satisfy their customers (in Japan, in US, less so in Europe), but PRIORITY is still their own interests (long term and short term).

My point is that as a customer, Prius owner, I'm not 100% satisfied and would like to persuade Toyota to improve.

My opinion may not coincide with your guys, which is pretty normal.
If you prefer "evangelize", idealize holy Toyota and shining Prius in particular it's fine with me. Why in this case you are ashamed?

ONE of the reason for my (hopefully reasonable) criticism is that I have more experience with the higher-end cars, but for you Prius is step up, clear improvement (technology aside) of your driving experience.

Life is bigger than even such a beautiful car like Prius.
This is just a car.

Buy, I have to watch England vs. Portugal
1:1, additional time

P.S. You see, same word - "football" means very different things to us. No wonder, there is the same problem with the "car" word.

Our question is not whether Toyota should "Improve" - but rather, what are you saying they should improve?

You seem to say they are losing money on the Prius, but you have no proof and they say otherwise. You seem to say there is something nefarious or calculated about the supply situation (car or parts, take your pick) but you have no proof and they say otherwise.

What you seem to be asking is that we believe you instead of believing what Toyota is saying about the situation.

Sorry, but my opinion of the relative credibility of sources has nothing to do with whether I "Love" Toyota or not.

If I see there's a legitimate issue, I'm all for raising the flag and storming the hill, but so far, I simply disagree on the legitimacy of the issues you raise.

I feel comfortable at least for myself that this does not mean that I'm in Toyota's pocket

Just read Toyota press release and my previous posts, Tempus.

England vs. Portugal
additional time 2:2, amazing supercharged game
it's penalty shutout in few minutes

Catastrophe - Bekham misses the goal posts (public enemy #1 in UK from now on)
Ouff - Costa misses too - sdaved for now and everything just restarted again - 3rd time in this incredible game!

6:6 - additional penalty
somebody WILL wink - and looose

7:7

That's it - English lost

8:7


Bekham finished

Bekham just hasn't been the same since his defection and the movie with his name.

boa8, I haven't been around in awhile, so when I checked into "my" thread I was surprised and disappointed to see your posts. Then I recognized your username and remembered why I no longer view or post on Edmunds.com. It's because of posters like you who can reasonably be described as trolls that pollute an otherwise rational discussion.

I think you owe efusco an apology. If you don't know why, I'd understand. Although this is a public board and I don't get to choose, I'm requesting that in the future please voice your obfuscations in someone else's threads. You aren't welcome in "mine".

I owe you nothing, guys. Moreover, I think you're functionally illiterate as out of all my post(s) you just pick up few (familiar) words without bothering to understand the logic and the meaning of the message.

However, I'm glad you're exposing your arrogance. This is just another argument in my favour. 8)