It’s an interesting view based on what seems to be coming from one market research firm in the town of Bandon, Oregon. Art Spinella, President of CNW, is plenty sharp but I did not read that he factored in important cost/benefit ratios such as the value of air quality, the cost of military operations related to securing oil supply and the fiscal value derived from the reduced consumption of fuel. “Employee driving distances†is mentioned as one factor. Does this mean the average trip made by auto factory workers, comparing one manufacture to another?

And this quote is intriguing…â€the Hummer H3 (among most SUVs) was only $1.949 cents per mile. That figure is also lower than all currently offered hybrids and Honda Civic at $2.42 per mile.â€

This stuff is very hard to believe.

What this tells me is the manufactures don't spend much money on designing or building SUVs. It certainly took more time and money to design the Prius than the H3 - and you can tell from the results.

Bandon, Oregon Yes that is the center of Automotive research in the world. Where is Bandon, Oregon and who are these folks and what do they know and where have they been and most importantly, as consultants how much were they paid?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(hdrygas @ Apr 1 2006, 08:44 PM) [snapback]233666[/snapback]</div>

Brandon isn't that the little fishing village south of Coos Bay? What ever you do don't sneeze as you drive thru it.

Yes, Bandon,Oregon is south of Coos Bay. I know it well.

A scenic town (you can't see the clear cuts from there) that boasts of a rocky coastline.

The most constant thing about Bandon is the wind..be it from nature or the local ideology.
It may be the left coast but that's the only thing "left" there..for the most part.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Cameron @ Apr 1 2006, 10:40 PM) [snapback]233623[/snapback]</div>

The whole thing is horse pucky if you ask me. At 12,000 miles per year, somehow $29,040 is spent on all the energy to have made and moved the car that far. Then you're looking at $242,000 by the time you hit 100,000 miles. I saw this algebra on gminsidenews.com, of all the darndest places...
If I was really blowing though all that much cash on energy, I'd stay home and just get rich!

Dave

http://www.evworld.com/view.cfm?section=co...ue&newsid=11520

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(hdrygas @ Apr 1 2006, 11:44 PM) [snapback]233666[/snapback]</div>

The question to ask would be "who is paying for this research". That usually would provide more insight into things and provide a more balanced view.

Given enough money, anyone can come up with any statistics to prove anything.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Three60guy @ Apr 2 2006, 01:56 PM) [snapback]233833[/snapback]</div>

Exactly, follow the money. If you know an established industry is dependent on maintaining the status quo, why not make some money by offering proof to use in discrediting the competition. Just enough to cast suspicion. I wonder if this marketing firm factored the wear a Hum-V and other heavy trucks cause on our roads. I also wonder if CNW Marketing Research had any involvement in Oregon’s effort to replace the gas tax with a mileage tax, where the Hum-V and Prius pay the same tax based on length of vehicle? Who are these people?

All,

On scientific grounds, I've got problems with this. Irrespective of the fact that Rush Limberger, and the rest of his conservative cohorts will use this to nail hybrid to the wall, it's just one report. Simgle data points don't mean snap in the the world of science and engineering. Not only that, but how did he conduct his research? Anyone can generate a trade study to determine values, but god knows I 've been involved with a few that did not mirror reality. So take this for what it is, one report from one company that does market analysis for the Auto industry.

On a personal level, I just can not believe that the Hummer uses less petrolium than the industry average. That thing is HUGE. How much energy must go into building that thing as far as raw material is concerned. And the fuel efficiancy is awful, there is NO WAY that thing uses less oil then a Prius over an 8-9 year lifespan. I just can't see it. MAYBE there is a case that cradle to grave hybrid fuel use isn't as great as originally anticipated. They are more complex vehicles, so that MAY be posible. But the Hummer less then average, who's smoking what...and where are they getting it.

Peace,
Cosmo

It is most certainly possible to develop a drive that costs more (in money, energy, and materials) to develop than is saved throughout its lifetime, but this study is clearly bullshit geared to pull people away from hybrids. All production hybrids can be assumed to conserve energy in the long run by the time the "premium" is exceeded; after all, the extra energy required to build one is exactly what you pay for with the $3-5k price premium.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Cosmo @ Apr 3 2006, 04:48 PM) [snapback]234292[/snapback]</div>

I resemble that remark, I am about as conservative as they get and I've been driving a Prius since '04. BTW a lot of Libs have trash me for it. So there.
Peace, Bro

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(imntacrook @ Apr 4 2006, 01:09 AM) [snapback]234596[/snapback]</div>

I was surprised to hear Rush dis the Prius. He claims that whenever a driver of a ICE powered car sees a Prius they think. "sucker". I use to listen to Rush for a different take on life but that was the last straw. Dis'n the Prius, unforgiveable!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Cameron @ Apr 6 2006, 08:59 PM) [snapback]236161[/snapback]</div>

I dont worry about that too much. After all, the way gas prices are going, it will soon be the other way around... :lol:

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(imntacrook @ Apr 4 2006, 02:09 AM) [snapback]234596[/snapback]</div>

imntacrook,

I was by no means impugning all conservatives as anti-hybrid - that would be silly. I know many conservatives who drive Prius' or the Ford Escape Hybrid. That being said, individuals such as Rush Limburger and his ilk routinely trash the Prius and other hybrids for some odd philosophical reason, to the point that they call Prius buyers "suckers". I've got a 2006, and so far I don't feel like a sucker. What truly irks me most is that Rush does a fine job bashing the Prius, but NEVER seems to come up with an alternate solution to our energy dilemma. If anyone has even heard him speak positively about Ethanol, or biodiesel, feel free to share.

For whatever reason, it seems that most of the people who are hybrid bashers are right of center on the political spectrum. I personally have not met someone left of center that attacks hybrids with the same gusto. If anything the overwhelming majorities seems to want a quicker adoption of the technology, or are pining away for a sub $20,000 hybrid so that they can afford one.

My comment was not made as an attack on any individual besides Rush "drugged out" Limburger, nor was it meant as an overarching attack on a particular political philosophy. And it sure as heck wasn't directed at you in any way. But you must agree with me that some people would use this single, in my estimation flawed analysis as an over the top attack on hybrids.

Peace bro,
Cosmo

It's quite the opposite ~ I have a great disdain for non-hybrid vehicles... before I got my 2nd gen Prius I was driving around a Nissan Altima with about 100k. I hated driving non hybrids so much and drove it so roughly that it broke down at 120k miles. I've told this story to my friends, and they sure as heck don't let me drive their nonhybrids.

Next time you are at a stop light next to a SUV. Which vehicle is idling? Not the Prius. Phantom loads such as an idling ICE use incredible amounts of energy doing nothing. Same thing for your office or home, eliminated phantom loads can reduce your energy demand significantly. The cumulative effect is major.

Even if "lego" SUVs are cheaper to build (the initial cost), they are not cheaper to operate and consume more energy for the same distance driven. Deferred costs (not idling) are valuable and produce a higher rate of return. Lloyd's of London has recognized it is the policies you do NOT write and do not pay a loss on, that can be worth as much or more than the policies you collect a premium on, but then have to pay out on a large loss.

Over the life of a vehicle (100k+ miles) money not spent and energy not used provides a valuable return on your investment. Many utility companies recognize that "negwatts" can be more valuable than producing kilowatts.