<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Tideland Prius @ Jun 7 2006, 02:39 PM) [snapback]267488[/snapback]</div>

Thank you Tideland! However, that is Canada, eh? Any yank out there know if we are getting close to this yet?

I actually thought it would take longer. About 2 years into the hybrid version of Camry being available was when I figured reality would strike the majority. But with such absurd emphasis on increasing consumption in recent years, then the rather abrupt collapse of the domestic automakers, this turnaround happened sooner than expected.

The ever climbing price of gas was a given. Without any supply growth, obviously it would cost more. But this sudden panic to deliver something new is quite a surprise. And the supposed answer is silly: Ethanol. That is a very good complementary component for the future, but most definitely not a solution onto itself. But these absolutely desperate automakers are making it appear as though it is... because they have nothing else to offer.

So now people are crunching the numbers and taking a look forward (especially knowing the tax credits won't last forever). Realizing that prices tomorrow will likely be even higher, the "save money" factor is becoming a non-issue. Heck, some people are even seeing that the "break even" factor isn't necessary, that some hybrids offer much more than just the MPG improvement.

It's the very reason I'm pushing so hard on those that feel "assist" hybrids can be competitive. I want to know how the automakers struggling financially already could survive in the long-term selling a design that isn't anywhere near as flexible as the "full" hybrid. The investment needed to implement a technology change is quite hefty. So they will want to commit to something and stick with it as long as possible to turn a reasonable profit.

Whatever the outcome, it's just really nice finally seeing an attitude change in the media. The nonsense of the past seems to be fading into memory now, rather than the routine source of frustration it once was.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(TonyPSchaefer @ Jun 7 2006, 11:30 PM) [snapback]267693[/snapback]</div>

Everyone who drives with me in my Prius wants one, now that they've seen it up close and see how quiet it is, how the gas engine shuts off when it's not needed, how the mileage is above 50 mpg, how well designed it is and how much it costs to fill up, compared to their vehicles. Perhaps first-hand knowledge is more important than negative articles written about the Prius and its so-called hybrid "premium". As a friend of mine recently said to another friend in the car at the time "I've got to get one of these!"

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(john1701a @ Jun 8 2006, 12:14 AM) [snapback]267705[/snapback]</div>

Agreed on your ethanol view. The Acura Integra I drove for 12+ years and just traded for an '06 #5 seaside was able to run on alcohol alone. I looked, but was never able to find a source of it. So much for that.

In my opinion, though, the situation is worse with the desperate automakers in that it is not that they don't have anything else to offer, it is that they refuse to offer anything else. Staying put, using "old" technology is the least expensive option for them. Change costs them money, and heaven forbid that they do anything that in the short term, would end up impacting their profits even if it resulted in long-term gain.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Tideland Prius @ Jun 8 2006, 03:31 AM) [snapback]267765[/snapback]</div>

I believe that. It was relatively expensive three years ago already - even with the then difference in exchange rates - when I drove to Newfoundland.

I second this. Why should we defend hybrids when they are better for the environment. I personally think there's a cheaper is better mentality that has become what I will term almost a sickness and the debate over hybrid cost is one symptom of the problem. Overall, hybrids will probably be less expensive given their environmental benefits in the same was as it is cheaper to design and ship a product that has little flaws as opposed to shipping one that is very flawed. It costs more in the long run to fix the flawed one.

Yes, they probably will. :lol:

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(JackDodge @ Jun 8 2006, 06:43 AM) [snapback]267780[/snapback]</div>

This reaction is common. People notice I'm driving a new car, and say, oh it's one of those little hybrid things, right? They're not sure what to think because they haven't actually seen one up close. But take a car full out to lunch, and you hear things like this:

"How come you didn't have to put in the key?"
"Wow, nice backup camera"
"Have you started it yet (and we're 1/4 mile down the road)"
"Hey, man, your car just died...oh, guess not."
"Is that mileage number on your screen correct?"
"How much of a tax credit will you get for buying this car?"
"Hey, there's more room in this back seat than in my Camry!"
"Nice sound system, turn it up. Is that an MP3 CD?"

And my favorite is the one Jack's friend used in his post. Think Will Smith in Independence Day:

"I have GOT to get me one of these!"

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(TonyPSchaefer @ Jun 8 2006, 11:30 PM) [snapback]268422[/snapback]</div>

Tony,
What do you mean by folding the front seats? you mean forward completely, or just all the way back?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(tideland_raj @ Jun 9 2006, 01:39 PM) [snapback]268684[/snapback]</div>

If you move the front seats all the way forward, then recline them all the way back, they will lie flat.

If you just do it for the passenger seat, you can get in 8' 2x4s

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Tideland Prius @ Jun 7 2006, 02:39 PM) [snapback]267488[/snapback]</div>

This is still an argument I refuse to be part of. I bought the car because I like it and its features; one of the features I like is the gas milage. Tideland stated it well, " I still think it's weird that hybrids have to have their cost justified but not luxury cars or SUVs.".

What is especially irritating is many of the people trying to force a return on investment analysis on my Prius purchase are driving vehicles more expensive than the Prius....

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(j24816 @ Jun 9 2006, 05:01 PM) [snapback]268931[/snapback]</div>

What he said B) ! Also--forget the Hybrid stuff--what gadgets come on a non-hybrid 4 door hatchback for $20-whateverK? My husband's 2002 BMW has--AS ADD-ONS some of the gadgetry the Prius has, and the Prius is like 1/3 the price (or less). (Not that I want his car anyway--too big!)

5 year turnaround? Hrmph, that's like saying your refusing to get solar cells on your roof if they don't pay back within 5 years. Silly thinking if you ask me. Besides if you can afford a car every 5 years why would you really care if you are saving money on a car?

I plan on riding mine until the wheels fall off! Of course I'm more hoping the batteries will last long enough to get to a next-gen version that I can simply replace.

Extra Money? You mean the extra money in my bank! At this point in time the question is misleading-almost. In the case of the Prius what other car holds is value? With a Prius, if prices go up your car become more valuable. If prices go down, then you have a car the depreciates still less then others due to HOV lane laws, short supply, and green appeal. The government gave you 3000 until recently.

Intellichoice.com shows the prius to be the cheapest car to own, hands down. There is no extra money. Bottom line is that the Prius is the least expensive car to own out of them all.

Whenever someone asks me that question, I immediatly ask them to go to intellichoice and look up the prius. I then ask them to look up their car. Pretty much makes my point. The only extra money I have is IN MY BANK!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(TonyPSchaefer @ Jun 7 2006, 11:30 PM) [snapback]267693[/snapback]</div>

http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/cars/ne...l-gas/index.htm
http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/cars/ne...06/overview.htm

Consumer Reports corrected their analysis and found that the Prius and Civic Hybrids are expected to save their owners money. Of course their revised analysis may never get the attention of their original erroneous analysis claiming that owning a hybrid always costs more than a comparable non-hybrid, which was part of their annual auto issue.

The April 2006 Consumer Reports claimed that Hybrids didn't save the buyer's money in the long run. This was due to a C-student style mistake in economics or accounting. They essentially doubled the price premium of a hybrid by adding both the purchase price and the predicted depreciation (purchase price - resale value) to the ownership costs. After publishing the false claim that all hybrids currently have higher predicted ownership costs than comparable cars, they promptly received letters from readers who could do the calculations correctly, since Consumer Reports admirably made their analysis transparent. They also admirably issued press releases correcting the analysis, which some papers picked up on.

Of course their final analysis still compares hybrids with arguably inferior cars; they equate the Prius with a base Corolla LE and an Accord (V6, 253 hp) Hybrid with a 4 cylinder (166 hp) Accord. On the other hand they aparently assume that everybody pays MSRP for all cars and that there are no buyer or dealer incentives like cash back or special financing.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Tideland Prius @ Jun 7 2006, 11:31 PM) [snapback]267765[/snapback]</div>

Word. B)