I still think the 'hydrogen highway' is a farce. The 2008s come out in what, September 2007? I don't see any fuel stations being built yet. Are the regenerative brakes hooked up to an electrolysis unit in the trunk? Is there an RV version where the holding tank is also the hydrogen source?

I know in parts of California and Texas the dealers have the stations to fill them. I know some of the companies are offering them (ev1 anyone) on a lease with certain rules and whatnot. But if they offer the cars in my area I would seriously consider it. I really think the hydrogen cars are cool. Whether or not the hydrogen highway is a farce or not I don’t see all the major manufactures jumping to make ev cars. What ever gets rid of pollution from our tailpipes I am for. For me keeping 8 miles set aside to go fill up is more convenient than having to go begging with an extension cord for a place to charge my car but that is right now if they started putting in curbside plugs the ev car would work for me. Whatever gets us city people with no garage and parking assigned in a big lot or the find a spot on the curb method off of fossil fuel I say back it.

There are already here for the public! O.K. not quite, but there are hydrogen buses run by A.C. Transit, well at least in Berkeley. And I think I saw a VTA hydrogen bus in San Jose, CA.

My time machine will cost $500,000 less than their concept car . . . and that's why Honda fails to tell what the cost will be, in 2008 . . . just 9 months away.

"It goes 270 miles on its 4 kilogram, 5,000psi hydrogen tank."

I just wonder how high it goes when the tank bursts open.

~S

Is it just be or does it looks exactly like a prius (or rather the potoshop of the next-gen prius from some rag?)

I doubt the car will be sold in 2009/10 but it would be interesting if it did. I'm not a big believer in the hydrogen solution as it requires building hydrogen filling stations and I doubt we can get enough hydrogen cars on the road to make people interesting in opening hydrogen stations. Maybe "peak oil" will force this shift to happen?

If I had a filling station on my way to/from work (or within a couple of miles) a hydrogen car would work for me, and I also believe it's better for global warming then gasoline.

The advantage of pure EV cars is that the "gas station" problem is solved. We can make use of the only existing power delivery network that can compete with our gasoline network. The remaining problem seem to be that the EV's "gas tanks" reduce it's "size" over time (sorta like a bladder in the gas tank that keep shrinking). They seem to be close to having solved this to a reasonable degree (replace expensive "gas tank" every 7-10 years)

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(excuseMeButt @ Apr 13 2007, 10:50 AM) [snapback]422593[/snapback]</div>

That was an argument back about 3 years ago when Mercedes started work on hydrogen cars. The actually had the hardest time getting any explosive results at all because the hydrogen being lighter than air floated away before it could be ignited. The tanks are designed in such a way that in a crash they do not explode but rather just crack at predetermined spots releasing the fuel. Mercedes said they concluded the only way to get it to explode would be to put an ignition source into the tank itself or redesign the tank.

I am sure the engineers have thought of these things before putting them on the road. When the prius first came out people were saying the batteries would shock you or the acid would kill you.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(excuseMeButt @ Apr 13 2007, 07:50 AM) [snapback]422593[/snapback]</div>

The sky is the limit. :blink:

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Tideland Prius @ Apr 13 2007, 01:42 PM) [snapback]422776[/snapback]</div>

Yeah that was another part of the test. The dummies only received flash burns from the hydrogen. I think they said worse case from just hydrogen 2nd degree non-fatal flash burns. From gasoline worse case lethal 3rd degree burns because the fuel sits on the ground and burns.

All in all from what I have found the new vehicles (ev and hydrogen) are far safer compared to traditional cars.

http://reviews.cnet.com/4520-10895_7-67243...l?tag=cnetfd.mt

What do you all think of this article?

"In an article from Automotive Engineering International, Volkswagen's Professor Jurgen Leohold sees hydrogen fuel cells as being an interim solution. He's looking at a long-term solution of better batteries. And it's true that if we had batteries that could run a car for 350 miles, then be recharged in five minutes, we wouldn't need to consider hydrogen fuel cells. There's a lot of current research going into new battery technology and supercapacitors, but that's a column for another time."

I drove 140+ miles today and didn't use a drop of gasoline. I drove a Honda Civic GX (natural gas powered).

You can drive one, too. But you probably didn't, because the cars aren't available most places, and refueling stops are few and far between. And if you had one, get used to refueling every day, sometimes 2 or 3 times a day because the compressed natural gas is not energy-dense.

Why believe the hype about hydrogen when natural gas cars are already here and are not very popular, to say the least.

Harry

seem to have skipped the hydrogen production process. H would be viable if it were readily available and didn't require large amounts of energy to create it. Granted, you can create it using solar generated electricity, but why not just use the electricity to power the vehicle, instead of being the middle 'man'. Automakers aren't 'jumping' all over EV's because they know it won't be a good continuous source of income (why did GM recall the EV1?).

Both technologies still need advancement, but electricity as a driving force is much simpler both on the technology side and the social development side. just my $0.02.

Hydrogen Production
More Hydrogen Production

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Earthling @ Apr 13 2007, 11:33 AM) [snapback]422893[/snapback]</div>

Fantastic reply! We have far more CNG stations than we'll have H2 stations for a very long time. We can buy CNG cars today for "normal" prices (like the price of a Prius). The filling situation is the same. The range can certainly be the same. The complexity is far less. The cost of the fuel is less... and yet there exists no real market for CNG cars. Hmmm. Something ain't right.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(darelldd @ Apr 13 2007, 03:03 PM) [snapback]422919[/snapback]</div>

That's true. I was in the bay area for work last month, and saw a lot(30+) of CNG cars during the 2 days I was there, and even saw it at the station filling up my rental car. I've seen 1 CNG car down here in SD and i've never seen it at any station.... what up with that!
My other question is: isn't natural gas another fossil fuel that'll end up being limited in quantities?

There is far less natura; gas than crude oil.

Easiest way to create an infrastructure for re-fueling is to put re-fueling stations at the dealerships. So the auto manufacturers can go into the distribution chain. Plus get people to the dealerships more often!

Or do waht Honda is doing and put a fueling station in your house!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Devil's Advocate @ Apr 13 2007, 07:33 PM) [snapback]423031[/snapback]</div>

i like the Honda idea only if I can get fuel at other places too otherwise why wait the electricity and water to make fuel when I can just charge an ev at home. The at home thing doesn’t work for me right now for any vehicle