1. Attachments are working again! Check out this thread for more details and to report any other bugs.

ICE takes longer to turn on when starting car; good or bad?

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Care, Maintenance and Troubleshooting' started by bmparent, Oct 27, 2014.

  1. bmparent

    bmparent Member

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2014
    159
    65
    0
    Location:
    barre ma
    Vehicle:
    2007 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    I don't know if this is too much of a newbie question or not but...
    I recently brought the car in to have the transmission fluid and spark plugs changed; it was in the garage for almost 2 weeks as I wasn't able to go in and pick it up. It was a local but trusted garage, not a dealer. Since I've had it back, when I power up the car, the ICE takes a noticeably longer time to switch on. It used to come on before I'd put it into gear, not it doesn't come on *until* I get into P or R, or at least just before sometimes. What does this mean? Is it good, bad or neutral? Is this an issue that relates the the plugs somehow? (I don't think so myself). I suspect is has something to do with the 12v battery, which I've had no noticeable problems with yet. Thanks all.
     
  2. JC91006

    JC91006 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2013
    16,470
    8,383
    0
    Location:
    Los Angeles, CA
    Vehicle:
    2008 Prius
    Model:
    II
    This is the warm up phase of the car, I don't think there's anything wrong with your car. I would worry if the engine stays on and doesn't turn off or vise versa.

    Does it turn on at all without going into gear?
     
  3. GrumpyCabbie

    GrumpyCabbie Senior Member

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2009
    6,722
    2,121
    45
    Location:
    North Yorkshire, UK
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    III
    The engine comes on straight away if you use the front demister or rear window heater. I notice sometimes the engine will fire up when you put the car in reverse too.

    Maybe you used to reverse out before and now you drive forward instead?

    Normally though, the car takes about 7-10 seconds before the engine fires up.
     
  4. 2k1Toaster

    2k1Toaster Brand New Prius Batteries

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2010
    6,035
    3,854
    0
    Location:
    Rocky Mountains
    Vehicle:
    2006 Prius
    Model:
    Three
    It should be in the 7 second range unless the battery is near empty or the HVAC is demanding a high load like immediate heat or super AC. Don't worry about it.
     
  5. Britprius

    Britprius Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2010
    5,194
    1,912
    0
    Location:
    Herefordshire England
    Vehicle:
    2008 Prius
    With the gen2 Prius the normal delay is 7 seconds. Putting the car in reverse will delay engine start up if the HV battery is reasonably charged.
    This is because the engine actually fights against MG2 that runs in reverse to make the car go backwards reducing the available power in reverse if the engine runs.

    John (Britprius)
     
  6. JC91006

    JC91006 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2013
    16,470
    8,383
    0
    Location:
    Los Angeles, CA
    Vehicle:
    2008 Prius
    Model:
    II
    ever tested the delay timeframe while going in reverse?
     
  7. Britprius

    Britprius Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2010
    5,194
    1,912
    0
    Location:
    Herefordshire England
    Vehicle:
    2008 Prius
    As long as the car is in reverse and the HV battery has enough charge the engine will not start. As stated above "somewhat clumsily" only MG2 gives you reverse. The engine tries to drive the car forwards because the Prius does not have a reverse gear. When the battery gets low the engine starts to use MG1 to provide current to help drive MG2.

    John (Britprius)
     
    JC91006 likes this.
  8. Britprius

    Britprius Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2010
    5,194
    1,912
    0
    Location:
    Herefordshire England
    Vehicle:
    2008 Prius
    The link below shows very effectively how reverse works. Scrolling down to the animation, if you slide the button for MG2 to reverse "downwards" the outer ring that drives the wheels goes backwards, and obviously forwards "upwards" for forwards. If while in reverse you you slide the engine slider to run the engine you will see it does not assist the ring in going backwards but tries to drive it forwards also driving MG1. In trying to drive MG1 it only puts more forward torque against the outer ring going in reverse.
    Toyota Prius - Power Split Device

    John (Britprius)
     
    #8 Britprius, Oct 27, 2014
    Last edited: Oct 27, 2014
    JC91006 likes this.
  9. JC91006

    JC91006 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2013
    16,470
    8,383
    0
    Location:
    Los Angeles, CA
    Vehicle:
    2008 Prius
    Model:
    II
    Is 65 mph the most efficient speed for the Prius? Where ICE runs at a minimum, only around 1000 rpm
     
  10. Britprius

    Britprius Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2010
    5,194
    1,912
    0
    Location:
    Herefordshire England
    Vehicle:
    2008 Prius
    This is not as simple as it seems. If you play with the animation you will see that at 65 mph MG2 is running at 3835 rpm. This remains constant for a given road speed. The engine can be running at anything between 1100 rpm and 4500 rpm while MG1 can be running at anything between -6300 to +6200 with the car still doing 65 mph. This particular animation is not for the gen2 it's actually for gen1 the system is exactly the same, but rpm's will vary because of different gear ratios.
    The most efficient speed is somewhat lower than your figure.

    John (Britprius)
     
    #10 Britprius, Oct 27, 2014
    Last edited: Oct 27, 2014
  11. GregP507

    GregP507 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2014
    3,002
    480
    0
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Plug-in Base
    I pay no mind to when the ICE turns on or off. I'll start being concerned if my mileage goes down.
     
  12. Cadenza

    Cadenza Member

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2013
    110
    28
    0
    Location:
    LALA Land
    Vehicle:
    2005 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    Curious... Instead of waiting, I usually tap the gas pedal to activate the ICE during cold starts. Is this bad practice?
     
  13. Britprius

    Britprius Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2010
    5,194
    1,912
    0
    Location:
    Herefordshire England
    Vehicle:
    2008 Prius
    If your first action is reversing it would be better not to tap the pedal, but it will do no harm to the car.

    John (Britprius)
     
  14. Cadenza

    Cadenza Member

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2013
    110
    28
    0
    Location:
    LALA Land
    Vehicle:
    2005 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    It's a habit that I like to get the oil pumping for the first minute before putting the car into gear.
     
  15. Britprius

    Britprius Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2010
    5,194
    1,912
    0
    Location:
    Herefordshire England
    Vehicle:
    2008 Prius
    When reversing the engine normally would not be running, and fights against the electric motor that powers the car backwards.

    John (Britprius)
     
  16. GregP507

    GregP507 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2014
    3,002
    480
    0
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Plug-in Base
    It may not seem like fun, but I've gotten incredible reliability out of the vehicles I treated gently.
     
  17. bmparent

    bmparent Member

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2014
    159
    65
    0
    Location:
    barre ma
    Vehicle:
    2007 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    So upon closer obs. today, the ICE didn't started until I put it in drive, and that was very clearly outside the 7-10 second range. Perhaps 20 sec. I haven't noticed much difference in MPG, just a 1 MPG drop in the tank average since being back from the garage which I attribute to colder weather. So I guess it's not something to worry about, but I am curious about how the system works, and why the very noticeable change would have taken place. Before the work, the ICE would come on much sooner, while sitting idle. Also, what does MG1/MG2 mean?
     
  18. 2k1Toaster

    2k1Toaster Brand New Prius Batteries

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2010
    6,035
    3,854
    0
    Location:
    Rocky Mountains
    Vehicle:
    2006 Prius
    Model:
    Three
    Unless you prevent it from turning on (like choosing reverse) the gas engine will start 7 seconds after startup. If it doesn't there is something strange going on. People are notorious for not knowing how to count time, so I would ask you use a stopwatch (like on your cell phone or an actual stopwatch) to get the time between when the car says "READY" on the dash to when the ICE starts. Do nothing but turn the car in READY, no shifter movements. It should be 7 seconds with anything above a low SOC battery.

    Motor Generator 1 and Motor Generator 2.

    They are the 2 electric drive motors that couple with the single petrol powered engine to form the hybrid drivetrain. They also act as generators producing power at various times for various reasons. Hence "MG".
     
  19. css28

    css28 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2012
    1,566
    442
    3
    Location:
    Suburban Detroit
    Vehicle:
    2011 Prius
    Model:
    Three
    I have trouble picturing what you claim.
    How is the engine fighting against the electric motor?

    I'm supportive of forcing the early start--it gets me thru phase 1 sooner before I need to propel the vehicle (forward).
     
  20. GregP507

    GregP507 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2014
    3,002
    480
    0
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Plug-in Base
    Nothing is "fighting." The power sources are coupled to the drive-train through a power-sharing differential.