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Is Arizona Going from the Green-14 to the Least Green State?

Discussion in 'Toyota Prius Plug-in' started by jbrad4, Feb 6, 2012.

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  1. jbrad4

    jbrad4 Active Member

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  2. kornkob

    kornkob New Member

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    That is going to be the future, I suspect. It is, effectively, a use tax.

    Hybrids and electric vehicles use public roads, which are traditionally paid for via taxes on gas. Since hybrids and electrics reduce the amount they pay in gas tax without reducing use of the road, states will need to come up with ways to pay for the roads that isn't tied to fuel consumption.

    It's either that or toll roads everywhere--- but then they'd have to find a way to put tolls on surface streets.
  3. jbrad4

    jbrad4 Active Member

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    This Arizona tax, if it goes through, de-incentivises buying electric vehicles and getting the U.S. off foreign oil. What is the percentage of electric vehicles on the road? Less and 1%, I bet. How do you tax a Volt or a Plug-In Prius that is not being charged very often and running on gasoline. If these vehicles are taxed as electric, then they are double-taxed. This is not good for Tesla and other EV startup companies.
  4. SageBrush

    SageBrush Senior Member

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    Political grandstanding this is, to show dissatisfaction with EV subsidy and project tea party purity.

    A reasonable argument is to say "I'll be happy to pay road use tax, just as soon as petrol users pay back subsidies and externalities." I think the EV industry would LOVE a level playing field.
  5. jbrad4

    jbrad4 Active Member

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    Oil companies see no threat from electric vehicles. Oil companies project that the number of electric vehicles will only reach 4 percent in 20 to 30 years. Just the talk of taxing electric vehicles will keep some people from buying electrics and plug-ins.
  6. fberger

    fberger Junior Member

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    The solution to make up for lost revenue is to INCREASE taxes on gas. Once most people are off gas due to its exorbitant price, roads will be paid for by general funds or direct car taxes.
    No need for toll roads when most tax payers use cars anyways.
  7. DavidA

    DavidA Prius owner since July 2009

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    Just wait until one (or more) state(s) figures out how to reward electric and PHV vehicles and their owners. Might be a dream, but there's going to be a turning point out there somewhere, some time.
  8. ngc4565

    ngc4565 Member

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    The old model of supporting highways with fuel taxes will not work in the age of hybrids and EVs. Something has to change, and it has absolutely nothing to do with the kind of green you are referring to. It have everything to do with the kind of green that typically features images of dead presidents.
  9. ItsNotAboutTheMoney

    ItsNotAboutTheMoney EditProfOptInfoCustomUser Title

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    As Sage pointed out, there are externalities not taxed that effectively subsidize gasoline (although not as extreme as some suggest).

    However, I don't object to mileage-based pricing. In fact, I think it should be done for all cars. Tax the car based on GVWR and mileage. It'd hit hybrids and electrics but it would also give a direct incentive to downsize.
  10. stevemcelroy

    stevemcelroy Active Member

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    This is something that Massachusetts is considering as well - it was covered in the news a couple of years back. While I can not speak about how Arizona is looking at implementing this tax I can tell you that Mass is looking to do it with all vehicles, not just hybrids and EV's. The idea behind it is to be able to more fairly tax for the upkeep of roads based on miles driven and the weight of the vehicle and it would do just that.

    I have seen some of the other opinions stating that it will be a curse for hybrids and EV's - yes I agree that it will take away some of the $ advantage, but I think that it is an important step forward in another way - it will be a small step in mainstreaming them.
  11. daniel

    daniel Cat Lovers Against the Bomb

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    As a long-time EV driver (Xebra for 4 years, Tesla for the last half year) I believe that every driver should pay for road construction and maintenance roughly in proportion to their use of, and wear-and-tear on, the roads. Since I do not pay gas tax for the miles I drive in my EV, it makes perfect sense to tax my car some other way.

    Yes, it would reduce the incentive to buy an EV. But I do not believe that tax breaks are an effective way to promote public policy. We'd get far more bang for the buck if those tax breaks were revoked and the money was put into R&D on better batteries instead.

    Of course, I also think that subsidies on oil should be eliminated, and fossil fuels should be taxed heavily.
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