Japan has worse gasoline than we do

This link says it's low sulfur in Japan, lower than us except we are now going to Japan levels, if I am reading this correctly
As far as octane, your numbers seems OK...I wonder what the Japan Prius manual calls for?

Japan: Fuels: Diesel and Gasoline - Transportpolicy.net

 

Maybe lower octane, etc... but the "stuff" they pass off as gas here nowadays has a shelf life of 30 days in marine environments, attracts water like nobodies business and looks and smells like piss rather than gasoline. It's a joke- everyone I know (including myself) has gas problems with their boats nowadays. It used to be you could put strait gas in the tank, not use the boat over the winter and that six mo old gas would be just fine in the spring. Try that with modern gas in the US and you'll need t get your tanks pumped and commercially cleaned. Even stabilizer doesn't make the gas last six months nowadays.... modern gas in the US is awful.

 

^^^well if it doesn't smell like gasoline, that might indicate you are getting the new EPA mandated super ultra low sulfur gasoline. I made a similar observation about less smelly in a post last week. As far as shelf life that's an E10 ethanol issue, right? Can they get E0 at the marina or not? I am wondering too we have boats near here.

 

I've used 8 year old gas that I stored in Scepter plastic "military fuel cans" with Stabil.

As an experiment in gasoline storage, I ran the gasoline through my 1998 Mazda MPV adding one can to at least half a tankful of fresh gas.

I had absolutely NO drivability problems.

Over eight years nearly half a gallon of the VOC's had permeated through the walls of the plastic cans. Yet, the car ran with no stumbling.

Today, I store only non-ethanol gas only in steel Nato type jerry cans.

So, gasoline can be stored, if done carefully, and with the proper method.

 

Ethanol-free gas stations in the U.S. and Canada lists stations and shops selling straight gasoline. There seems to be such near water bodies in states that don't mandate ethanol. Even before E10, you were risking varnish and other deposit build leaving last season's gasoline sit in a tank over winter, or engine knocking with it. The gas cans most commonly used aren't air tight. The lighter, more volatile compounds in the fuel will evaporate. The remaining ones will be oxidized by the air exposure. Along with the deposit forming compounds, this drops the octane by around one per month on average.

The ethanol adds water to the fuel. Some will get in by condensation, but the alcohol's hygroscopicity greatly increases it. I don't know if the ethanol and water lowers the gasoline components shelf life, but the water tends to be salty and acidic from contaminates that gasoline picks up along its way to your tank or can. That can be bad for engine components if it sits for awhile. In wet environments, enough water might get into the fuel to cause phase seperation. That isn't a worry with E30 or higher alcohol blends.

My experience with lawn equipment is that ethanol makes following the equipment's manual on care more important. Yes you could leave straight gas in them between seasons, maybe even with E10, but the manuals say to drain the tank and run it dry at season's end.

I didn't think the ULS gas was being phased in until 2017.

As to the OP, how accepted is premium fueled cars. Is it a kiss of death for sales, or does the Japanese public the higher fuel cost for the higher power and efficiency? Before answering that, is the price difference actually high enough to make it a concern? US premium RON is 97. Japan's is 100.
Octane rating - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Mazda lowered to compression ratio of the Skyactiv-G to 13:1 from 14:1 for the North American market in order to run the engine on our regular. They don't seem to have a concern selling the higher compression in Japan or Europe.

Note that we haven't seen a published MON rating for Japan's gasoline. While the RON is a couple points lower than the US's, a higher minimum MON couple mean an equal or higher AKI.

 

Today, I'm still driving around in the 1998 Mazda MPV, 16 years OLD.

While the gas I had in the Military Fuel Cans lost much of the VOC's, no air got to it to oxidize it. The cans were completely sealed for years, sometimes in a 120 degrees F. shed or outside in the field.

It runs great with NO issues. Go figure!

When and if the shite hits the fan, I know I've got gas that I can depend on, while others are hunting for a diminishing resource.

I've opened sealed metal NATO jerry cans with gasoline that I put in it five years, ago. The gas was as clean as the day I put it in.

 

For one of the assays at work, I use acetone to dehydrate the samples some before drying. I took the wet, waste acetone home and dumped it in the lawn mower. I have mixed acetone, IPA, and paint thinner in the fuel without problem before, even some of this wet acetone.

Well, I overestimated how much acetone I could safely add. It phase seperated the gas in the lawn mower. After draining the tank, had about 12 ounces of evenly split gas and water:ethanol:acetone. Added more alcohol to the bottle, and got most of the gas to mix back in. Added this, a half gallon of old gasil mix for the trimmer with about 4 gallons of gas from cans to my car. SO the 11.5gal tank was nearly full.

There might have been a little stumble on the first ride, but no problems. If diluted with enough fresh gas, and it mixes into the fuel, you can burn about nearly anything in an engine.

In addition the Stabil, you can use Seafoam as a stabilizer to keep gas for up to 2 years. The ratio is 1oz/gal for 4 cycle engines and 2oz/gal for 2 cycle ones. You can mix your own Seafoam. Homebrew Sea Foam (SeaFoam) Motor Treatment Recipe If it's just for going to be for fuel stabilizer, you can simplify it to just diesel when used in E10. Naphthas are the base stock for gasoline, and they already mixed in an alcohol for you.

 

...that's a good point...it could be that the R+M/2 is still about the same as US regular. I'd still be curious what the Japan Prius op guide recommends.

What's missing here we don't know Japan mix of Reg/Mid/Prem. GasBuddy.com has a recent U.S. survey (informal) were are like 83% Reg/2% Mid/8% Prem and I don't why it does not add up to 100%.

Hey I got blue type

 

Marina's are a last resort because typically they charge about a dollar per gallon above the standard rate of inland stations, and even though some do advertise "ethanol free" there is just no way for the boater to actually know if that's true or not... and most importantly; many shore based marina's have been found to have considerable water in their main tanks- which gets pumped into your boat's tank (at $5/gallon)!

I'm assuming that E10 is a contributor, but compared to yesteryear's gas there's probably lots of other chemicals in there now too. One thing that's been proven- E10 is a major source for water attraction in gasoline- which sits and collects at the bottom of the boat's tank. I had water trouble two weeks ago, so I siphoned the remaining 10 gal out of my boat's 60 gal tank... got a least a pint of water just before the pickup tube couldn't pull any more out of the tank. The separator/filter (the size of an old school V8 oil filter) was half full of water to. And that was from 100% fresh 60 gallons I put in the boat's empty than last week of June and have added 18 fresh gallons since. BTW- built in boat fuel tanks are permanently vented to outside the boat too...

May boaters now use and recommend Star Tron Enzyme Fuel Treatment that "eliminates and prevents ethanol fuel problems. Star Tron breaks down excess water and sludge to sub-micron size, allowing it to be safely burned away during normal engine operation which helps prevent phase separation."
I have a buddy that buys and sells boats, he swears by the stuff and considers it a necessity now rather than being optional because of the E10 water problem. I've added it to the new fresh gas after pumping out my tank- and will be adding it to every 6 gal tank I pour in the boat from now on. It's no fun getting stuck out on the water with bad gas. Star Tron is supposedly a preservative that will give you up to 2 years shelf life for your fuel... I'll be happy with six months shelf life at this point.
This same guy who recommended Star Tron is the one who also says that modern gas has a 30 day shelf life in a salt water marine environment nowadays. Unfortunately, from my experience over the last few years I'm beginning to agree with him... cause the stuff they call gas nowadays isn't what it used to be.

 

I'm suspect of additives that hide behind trade secret on the MSDS. The Star Tron is mostly heavy naphtha, which is just a carrier for the secret component. I don't think it contains an alcohol, since the MSDS lists it as being water insoluble. The typical alcohols(meth-, eth-, and isoprop-) and acetone are an effective way of getting water out of a fuel system. They will reduce excess water to the sub-micron size as Star Tron puts it. Acetone isn't used in commercial products because it can strip paint if spilled. Heet is just methanol. Iso-Heet, which is isopropanol, is the best to use, because unlike the others, itself isn't hygroscopic, and thus add to attracting water if the fuel sits with it.

I suspect Star Tron is using a fuel detergent. Just more of the same stuff the oil companies add to gas to fight deposits and sludge. The sludge wasn't put in the tank by the ethanol by the way. It got there from years of straight gas use. The ethanol, like biodiesel, is an effective fuel system cleaner. So adding it to a car or boat that has years of use without it can cause the same problems as going to biodiesel on a diesel that has only used the fossil stuff for years. It starts cleaning the crud out of the system. With years of build up, that could clog up the filter and other parts.

All gas stations have water in their tanks to some degree. A wet environment will likely have more than average, but even desert stations will have some water carried in with the tanker.

I think there test kits for ethanol content available. You can also test for it with a graduated cylinder and adding water to the gas. If the water layer is more than the amount of water you added, there is ethanol in it. You can separate out pure gas to use using the same method, but then you'll have a gasoline tainted water to deal with.

PS- wjtracy, you somehow manage to turn post text into a link for the pure-gas site I posted.

 

Well based on the threads title it appears both you and Japan have worse petrol than we do

 

Thanks for the informative post Trollbait....
Whatever is in Star Tron seems to work. I saw immediate results with my outboard (150hp Johnson 2-stroke)once I added it to the gas, it runs smoother at idle and there's hardly any smoke at idle now either. I really don't know about it's abilities combating water problems- but most users seem to think it certainly helps. If you look at the reviews on Amazon- they're overwhelmingly positive.

 

When I was a kid back in the late 60's I used to hold the funnel for my dad as he filled the family boat tank from 5 gal cans. I distinctly remember the gas being crystal clear and sparkling in the sun with a slight orange tinge, it had a very distinct petroleum smell.
The stuff we have here now is not clear and sparkling, it's more like Mountain Dew/piss yellow with a pretty foul smell.
If you try to use a hand pump to start the siphon... that pump is ruined in a few days.. it melts/fuses the pump's plastic components.

 

Leaded always spelt nicer and unleaded has a harshness about it.

 

And methanol is sweeter than ethanol.

 

I'm not really sure where all of this is going....

IF Japan has "worse" gasoline than we do (and octane rating isn't my definition of good or bad) why is this interesting?

My requirements for gas are pretty simple.
I don't swirl it around in a brandy snifter and gaze at the color and comment on the nose.

If it runs my vehicles without pre-detonating or fodding out my intake or fuel filters, then I'm pretty satisfied with it.
My newest vehicle has 60K miles on it and I usually go for 100-120 thou before I have to look on the other side of the throttle body.

Usually?
MPG tells you how well things are running under the hood.

I haven't driven in Japan for over 10 years, and I own no cars there now.

I don't really care how bad their fuel is.

 

I do.

The OP is begging for us to argue, else he might have said: "Japan has gas different than we do"

 

Nowadays, diesel fuel smells much better in a snifter.

 

...safety note for ETC before he gets out his brandy sniffer (which sounds like he's about to) gasoline contains benzene so you do really want to sniff it. EPA has enforced lower benzene levels so its been moderated but exposure should be kept to minimum.