Kicking hybrids from carpool lanes slows everyone down

Sadly, aside from motivational issues, they really ought to be putting gas guzzlers in the HOV lane. They are the vehicles which putting out the most air pollution by being in stop-and-go traffic. But, yes, having the HOV lane nearly empty isn't helping anyone (again, except as motivation)

 

The links at the bottom of the LATimes article are pretty interesting, too.

 

Here is hoping we all get out NEW Plug-in Prius very fast and can get back into the Carpool lane next year.... with the new GREEN sticker...

 

I don't think this is the correct long term solution.

The purpose of HOV is to motivate people to carpool with the incentive of a faster commute, i.e. they should double up. Putting single occupant low mileage vehicle in there defeats the purpose.

If people are fed up enough with traffic, they will carpool or get a vehicle that qualifies.

That was the original purpose of the carpool lane.

So now that the yellow stickers are gone, it is no different than before.

It's kinda like saying eliminating a tax cut is a tax increase. Um well, in a sense yes, or in a sense no. From another perspective, kicking hybrids from the carpool lane has returned traffic to "normal".

 

You're right, that is the motivational aspect I was talking about.

Currently, it is a matter of actually making things worse, in hopes that people will change to make things better. Given the emptiness of the HOV lanes (from reports here), it isn't working very well.

 

The HOV lane on our local freeway is the left lane, which makes for a very dangerous mix of driving personalities. I just stay to the right lane, never use it, regardless of number of passengers. My 2 cents: they should eliminate HOV lanes. Keep the lanes, ditch the special status.

 

It appears from that study that california's HOV lanes are under utilized and probably are not serving their purpose of motivating people to carpool. I wonder whether traffic would speed up if these lanes were removed, and what the impact would be on actual carpooling. My guess is that raising gas taxes would have a bigger effect on carpooling than the carpool lanes.

How about this? Return the carpool lanes to normal lanes. Raise California gas taxes 15 cents and make the highways flow a little better. Remove police from the job of policing the carpool lanes.

 

I'm seeing all your points of view as well, and I do generally agree with them.

It can be extremely dangerous entering or exiting the carpool lane when there is slow traffic to the right. It is an inherent design flaw. Unless they design more "soft" on/off ramps (a painted median with entry and exits), but this takes up valuable space which doesn't exist. One thing they are doing, and I'm not sure this helps, is that they are making certain stretches of the HOV lane without double-double yellow lines, just dotted white lines. This makes it easier to exit the HOV lane to make it into an interchange which is usually all the way to the right, and you have to cross 5-6 lanes of traffic.

We have no more land to expend the freeways without employing eminent domain. Given the value of real estate, this extremely expensive.

I think it is a moot point when the white stickers come out (the PIP qualifies). It should help to drive sales of the PIP quite strongly and we will see utilization go up.

 

The HOV requirement should say that if your vehicle gets over 43mpg hwy, you can have one person in it. If your vehicle gets between 31-42mpg hwy, you must have at least two people in it. If your vehicle gets less than 31mpg hwy, you must have at least three people in it. If your vehicle gets less than 25mpg hwy, you must have at least four people in it. This is just an example of a concept. This concept would encourage carpooling AND increased mpg efficiency. As the HOV lanes become over-crowded, the numbers can be adjusted in increments of 1mpg to optimize the quantity of traffic in the HOV lanes.

 

Perhaps CA's underused HOV lanes should be changed to HOT lanes: High Occupancy & Toll lanes. I.e. any single occupant vehicle can use that lane by paying a toll. And electronic tolling allows dynamic pricing, varying with demand to control congestion.

Most of my region's HOV sections are used heavily by real carpools, so we have only one underused enough to be configured for HOT. It hasn't been a financial success, probably because many of its commuters are not in the high budget category. But I suspect many areas of CA could pull in much higher average tolls, enough to fund better infrastructure.

 

It seems to me the problem is that some of the HOV lanes are causing congestion. TTI found that on some stretches if HOV lanes were not separated accidents increased 50%. I understand in many areas there just is not room to add better on/off ramps (I live in a place with short on ramps) or more lanes, but in many there are. THis is expensive hence, I thought of increasing gas tax, but allowing all traffic in the HOVs that are underutilized.

There are probably too many cops wasting their time checking out HOV violations as it is. This makes the police officer have to know the vehicle efficency too Not a good use of resources. Why 43? Shouldn't the cruze eco, lexus ct200, and hybrid sonata at 40+ get prius privalages to have fewer slow downs? After all they get worse mileage than the prius in stop and go traffic.

But the under utilization seems to beg the question are these lanes really increasing car pooling?

Well you get to employ people collecting the tolls, building the monitoring, catching the cheaters, and judges to decide the cases. But I don't think the HOT idea actually ever makes financial sense.

 

I like this idea
..provided the tolls collected go towards green vehicle rebates.

Just type the license plate into the computer (like they do anyways) and the mpg of the vehicle could be in the database based on vehicle type. For common vehicles, the officers would likely begin to remember the numbers.

until the robots and computers replace these people - many of the tollbooths where I live do not have attendants - if you don't have a fast pass, you toss your coins into a bucket (coin machine), the gate lifts automatically, and if you don't pay a toll, an automated camera takes your picture. The existing judges should be able to handle these cases.

 

The 91 freeway has already converted the HOV lanes into toll lanes and it is on a fastrack system, which is a transponder which communicates wirelessly with receivers to collect tolls. There are no toll booths or physical collections. If you are unfortunate enough to accidentally enter the toll lane without the transponder, then you can expect some camera to take a picture of your car and expect a hefty fine in the mail.

 

I just hope the folks who thought this was a good idea and implemented it are happy with the extra 60000 cars they added to the mess with a stroke of the pen........and the carpool lanes look emptier than ever...JTFS!

 

You have it backwards. The idea was a temporary incentive to encourage cleaner vehicles, by making use of an existing underused resource. That part succeeded quite well.

It didn't end with a stroke of the pen. It expired naturally, with no action.

Unfortunately, 'no action' seems to also describe the other efforts to reduce congestion. Why do so many commuters remain allergic to carpooling and other transit choices?

 

I think they should just offer a limited number of decals to anybody willing to pay. Start at $3000 and increase it for lower and lower fuel economies.

 

At those fees, I wouldn't be surprised if counterfeiters popped up.

 

I read a lot about your HOV lanes.....why not create a mass transit bus system that works.....then use this HOV lane for buses only, during the times that they are needed.....that would get people to work faster & better for the environment. If you have ever seen the buses going into NYC in the morning, you would be impressed......they are for the most part always full of people..

 

Yeah we have a bus line. It has a route calculator. It takes me 13 minutes to drive to work by myself in my Prius. If I relied on the bus system, it would be a 2 1/2 hour 1 way trip, and the same going home.
H'mmmm 16 minutes both ways, or Public Transit, 5 hours..... Bus's don't work in a area as large as Los Angeles. It's what, 65+ square miles....
Just move and live near where you work.
It makes about as much sense!