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Lpg

Discussion in 'Gen III 2010+ Prius Technical Discussion' started by nodiesel, Mar 10, 2010.

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  1. nodiesel

    nodiesel Junior Member

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    Hello,

    Today my brandnew Prius 2010 was converted to LPG (Vialle, lpi) with additional Flashlube injection system to prolonge valve seat recession. The gastank, net 50 liter,lays in the spare wheel compartiment, so almost the entire volume for the luggage could be preserved.
    I just wondered if anybody else has some experience with the LPG-conversion on the prius-engine; how long do the valves and seats resist to the dry burning of the gas? My previous Toyota Previa (Estima) ended up by 400.000 km (240.000 miles), a number, I believe, the PIII probably won"t get...
    Later I will tell you about my experiences, as well about the difference in mileage between petrol and LPG.
  2. ScottG10

    ScottG10 Member

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    Very interesting! Please keep us advised as to your FE and any ICE issues that come up.
    Does Toyota sanction this mod or is your warr. at stake now?
  3. GrumpyCabbie

    GrumpyCabbie Senior Member

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    Yeah this is interesting. You must keep us updated on how you get on long term. Can you post further details of the kit you have used?

    LPG is half the price of petrol here in the UK so a conversion can pay for itself in a short while on the mileage I do.

    :)
  4. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web 03 and 10 Prius

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    I remember seeing an announcement of a French conversion of the 1.5L, NHW20, many years ago. But it was a press release, not an individual owner.

    Bob Wilson
  5. nodiesel

    nodiesel Junior Member

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    Thanks for your questions so far, I believe there is time to give more explanation on this subject.
    Since the early 90's I'm driving exclusively on lpg, making a lot of kms; this was financially spoken the only solution for me; as you can see on the logname I am not a believer of the diesel-concept: in the region where I live particulates are one of the biggest pollutants of the environment, so I want to contribute to it rather than pollute even more...
    The installed lpg-set is a Dutch make: Vialle, Eindhoven. It has become widely spread in the Netherlands by using indirect liquid gas injection(LPI). Big advantage is the cooling effect of the liquid gas on the valves and seats, because warmth is needed to transform the liquid gas in to gaseous form.
    A build-in gaspump in the tank is transporting the lpg to the engine; in the past these pumps often didn't last longer than 200th km. Recently these problems have been sold, with my Previa it was the only real problem to have occured.
    Being available in almost every gasstation in Belgium and Holland, there is no real disadvantage you should consider the conversion, although the ever imminent question on the valve seat recession may trouble your happy thoughts a bit.
    To prolonge the live of the head, ther are merely two ways to use:

    1. get rid of the soft material and replace seats and valves by stellite, this is much harder and will resist far better the higher temperatures of dry burning of lpg. This method is rather expensive (2000euro), my former car lasted more than 400th km doing so.

    2. try to protect the valves by injecting a adapted fluid, widely used on the Australian lpg-market: Flashlube and Tune-ap.
    Flashlube uses a small 400ml container near the engine, it electronically and continuously injects the fluid into the 4 cylinders.
    After about 4-5000km it should be refilled.

    By the way, I'll try to make some pics of the different parts of the conversion, to make it all more understandable...

    so long,

    .
  6. GrumpyCabbie

    GrumpyCabbie Senior Member

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    Appreciate your help on this so far. I'm not sure I'll convert to LPG unless my warranty expires as I'm sure it would invalidate it, but I will certainly consider a conversion afterwards. This would make the Prius a very cheap car to run, especially considering the number of miles I do.
  7. Tekmann

    Tekmann New Member

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    I was wondering whether many gas conversion centre's were experienced enough to tackle a prius, and also how all the computers n sensors on a car like this cope with a LP fuel if different at all...????

    So how many kms/mls have you already done and what your experience so far.

    p.s Assuming the spare wheel is still he boot somewhere..???

    Tekmann
  8. GrumpyCabbie

    GrumpyCabbie Senior Member

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    My thoughts too. That's why I'm keen to see how he gets on. The lpg tank will go in the spare wheel well which is quite deep. Legally we don't need a spare wheel here (and maybe all Europe), so long as you carry one of those puncture repair cans.
  9. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North Staff Member

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    400,000km on the Estima. Why wouldn't the Prius achieve that esp. if the engine isn't running as often?? Or are you saying the newer engines are more fragile than the older engines? It is an interesting idea (esp. if taxis do it since they go through ALL the warranties within a year except the emissions which I think has unlimited kms)
  10. nodiesel

    nodiesel Junior Member

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    So far I could'nt detect any specific problem on the side of electronics or mecanical interference; I went to a lpg conversion centre which has special knowledge of hybrid cars, in fact one month ago these people where trainded by Vialle itself to become familiar with the specific high-voltage equipment and electronic devices of the car.
    Lately I filled the lpg-tank three times since the Prius started to run on lpg.
    If anybody likes to follow the history of the refuelling since the start on 11/3, do visit spritmonitor.de. By now I'm getting 6.2 l/100km out of it, means euro3.2/100km, not to bad?
    The installed Flashlube container seems to be more economical in use than predicted: it probably will last for 10000km with 400ml of fluid.
    The question on the warranties is quite simple: because of the 3 years or 100.000km in the Netherlands, for me it will be ended up after 18 months, I 'll have to take it for granted, keeping in mind the strong reputation of Toyota's engines ( Previa/Estima with 4tons and more...).
    By the way, a spare wheel is not provided here. There is a repair kit with a compressor...So plenty of space to place the lpg-tank of 62 l. Still have to look for a puncture repair can, one never knows...
  11. vahrn

    vahrn New Member

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    Congrats man that's something I would like to do too! I was wondering if you know by chance if Vialle produces also a methane (CH4) conversion kit, since it is way cheaper than LPG. Thank you.
  12. mandrei83

    mandrei83 Member

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    Hello,

    My Prius 2007 Executive was also converted into a LPG-hybrid now 2 weeks and I'm very proud of it. I'll open a special topic for this in few moments, with pics and some explanations of what I've did...:rockon:

    BR,
    Andrei from Romania
  13. mandrei83

    mandrei83 Member

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  14. z704w40

    z704w40 Junior Member

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    Could you tell us which conversion center did the job. I'm interested to do the same. How much liter of LPG does the tank hold and is the spare tire space effectively used.
  15. jayman

    jayman Senior Member

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    Many commercial and industrial "prime mover" engines run on either propane or more commonly, natural gas: Waukesha, Cummins, Caterpillar, are the prime examples

    The valve seat recession isn't so much a gas issue, but an oil issue. There are motor oils specifically designed to address this issue

    http://esso.ca/Canada-English/Files/Products_Lubes/IOCAENINDESSelect_Plus_40.pdf

    http://esso.ca/Canada-English/Files/Products_Lubes/IOCAENINDESGMA_Plus.pdf

    http://esso.ca/Canada-English/Files/Products_Lubes/IOCAENINDESEssolube_GLX_Plus.pdf

    http://esso.ca/Canada-English/Files/Products_Lubes/IOCAENINDESEssolube_GA.pdf

    http://esso.ca/Canada-English/Files/Products_Lubes/IOCAENINDESEssolube_G.pdf

    Mobil Pegasus 905

    Mobil Pegasus 710

    One thing you will notice is that care must be taken in selecting a motor oil intended for natural gas operation: the additives are usually not compatible with catalytic converters and o2 sensors

    Generally, a motor run on LPG or natural gas will remain very clean throughout its operating life. There are different combustion byproducts that can make regular motor oils break down