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Mazda Demio SkyActiv tops Japan's "Eco Cars" survey, Toyota Prius #2

Discussion in 'Prius, Hybrid, EV and Alt-Fuel News' started by cyclopathic, Sep 6, 2011.

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  1. cyclopathic

    cyclopathic Senior Member

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    Mazda Demio SkyActiv tops Japan's "Eco Cars" survey, Toyota Prius number 2



  2. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    What is the octane rating of Japan's regular?
    For the US, the Skyactiv-G will be asking for premium, or, because our fear of the unknown and premium gas, will have a lower compression ratio.
  3. austingreen

    austingreen Senior Member

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    Ford has said they will be using a lower compression unit that can use regular. Mazda has not confirmed what version they will be shipping to the united states, but the demio skyactiv would require premium here.
  4. spwolf

    spwolf Senior Member

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    Mazda will not sell this engine outside JDM due to pricing... it has everything you can imagine, including start/stop and it becomes too expensive to export.
  5. austingreen

    austingreen Senior Member

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    old news but skyactiv is the name mazda is giving to a family of energy saving technologies, that can be mixed and matched.
    2012 Mazda 3 Gets SKYACTIV Engine: Mazda 3 News



    We don't know yet the hp or even the size and compression yet, but mazda will be bringing the technology here, and ford will be using it too.
  6. spwolf

    spwolf Senior Member

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    sure, but we are talking about Mazda 2 1.3l engine in the article... which wont be sold outside of Japan due to the high price, according to Mazda.

    So i dont think we can draw conclusions for the 2.0l engine to be used Euro/US spec vehicles, which will also be influenced with pricing.
  7. austingreen

    austingreen Senior Member

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    Oh, sorry. Yes, I only am saying Mazda and Ford will bring skyactiv engines here. What I read before was they were unlikely to bring the 1.3L here because its only 83hp. Which does make it a low power car for the price they need to charge, so you can call it price. I doubt it would get much higher mpg on the epa cycle than a more powerfull skyactiv, the japanese cycle is quite different. Auto start-stop also as you said likely won't come anytime soon because of price, but.... Ford will make all their cars auto stop start by 2016. If the ford strategy works, I'm sure mazda will bring them over here.
  8. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North Staff Member

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    I think the first SkyActiv engine is a 2.0 litre for the Mazda3, no?
  9. austingreen

    austingreen Senior Member

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    Yes
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  10. cyclopathic

    cyclopathic Senior Member

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    yes, but they ran into 2 problems. First the regular in US/Can is 87(R+M) and it is 95 in Japan (equivalent of mid-grade 91 US). So they had to reduce compression to 13:1. Even more the current Mazda3 does not have space to put long 4-2-1 headers SkyActiv-G needs, so they had to reduce it again to 12:1.

    So in Mazda3 trim expect ~40-42MPG vs 48-50 EPA they will be getting in Japan. Not much when compared to Fiesta and Cruise ECO, but it is a bigger car.

    The new CX-5 platform based Mazda-3 will have long headers, lighter platform and better MPG, but we will have to wait a couple years.
  11. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North Staff Member

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    I don't blame them. People were up in arms about putting premium fuel in a smart fortwo (yet no such complains from MINI owners) The silly thing was, at least in my area, the smart costs the same to refuel as a Yaris (it was cheaper by a few cents). So the premium fuel requirement wasn't that big of a deal that people made it out to be. (Ditto the Volt). It's not like you're pouring premium into a 911 Turbo. That's a different story.
  12. spwolf

    spwolf Senior Member

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    uhm? why would they be getting 50 MPG EPA in Japan?
    No they wont.

    Little Mazda 2 with all the tech they could get that works well on Japanese cycle (start/stop), that wont work well on EPA, still doesnt compare to Prius (it is 30% less efficient).

    From there, how do you work out that bigger Mazda 3, with 2.0l engine will end up being more efficient than Mazda 2 with this much smaller engine?
  13. Sacto1549

    Sacto1549 New Member

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    I'm surprised that Mazda didn't compromise and offer a Skyactiv-G engine that runs off 89 pump octane unleaded, since the medium-grade unleaded petrol is widely available in North America.

    By using 89 pump octane, the engine could have been bumped up to 12.8 or 13.0 to 1 compression ratio, upping the fuel economy to 45-47 mpg.
  14. cyclopathic

    cyclopathic Senior Member

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    they claim 56% improved power train efficiency, take it any way you want.
    Mazda 3 is rated at 33 hwy, 33 * 1.56 = 51.5
    Ford Fiesta SFE and Chevy Cruise Eco rated 40 and 42 MPG on highway.
  15. cyclopathic

    cyclopathic Senior Member

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    IMHO if government is serious about improving MPG and reducing dependency on foreign oil, they should increase fuel Octane rating. It does not require more oil to produce higher octane gas, and BTW most of 87 rated gas sold in states with mandatory 10% ethanol, has higher then 87 octane.
  16. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    People are just pennywise and pound foolish when it comes to gasoline prices in general. When a new gas station and convience store opened up it town, it was packed with lines of cars. The old station across the corner was empty. I might have been its only customer that day.

    The difference in price?
    One cent.

    It's the same short sightedness when it comes to premium. A tank will cost more, but the improved economy generally works out to same cost per mile. So, for the same cost, you burn less fuel, and also get the full power output of the engine.

    Toyota, at least in the past, recommended 89 octane for their V6. I know my friend never put it in his Camry.

    The issue with the Mazda3 and the headers is only for one year until the redesigned model comes out.



    Drive train also includes the transmission. Mazda claims their new automatic combines the benefits of the tradition (step) auto, dual clutch, and CVT into one package.
  17. Rokeby

    Rokeby Member

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    From the Car Talk site:

    Finally, here's a nice irony: to increase gas' octane rating, companies
    add ethanol, when they're mixing up a batch of premium fuel.
    Interestingly, ethanol actually contains less energy than
    untreated gas, so the net result from the ethanol component is a
    reduction in your MPG. Other premium additives*, however,
    have the reverse effect, and slightly increase your MPG. So okay,
    overall premium provides a very slight net increase in MPG, but
    it's so slight that we swear you won't notice the difference.


    *Other octane boosting additives include aromatic hydrocarbons, ethers
    and alcohol (usually ethanol or methanol).

    From what I've read, it doesn't hurt an engine designed to run on
    regular to be run on premium. Also, it probably won't hurt an engine
    designed to run on premium to be run on regular due the computer
    controls on virtually all contemporary cars that retard the ignition
    timing when pre-ignition, "knock," is detected. The result of the timing
    being retarded is a loss of power.

    I would think that any loss of power would be most noticable, and even
    rise to the level of being considered unacceptable, on the smaller
    engines designed to run on premium being discussed in this thread.

    I have not been able to determine if the amount of ethanol in let's say
    E15 regular gas is enough to act as an octane booster and thus allow its
    substitution without power loss in an engine designed to run on premium
    grade gasoline.
  18. ItsNotAboutTheMoney

    ItsNotAboutTheMoney EditProfOptInfoCustomUser Title

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    Octane rating - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    From searching:
    - Most countries, including Japan use RON. USA and Canada use AKI.
    - Multiply RON by .95 to get an approximate AKI equivalent
    - (From more searching and reading) The minimum in Japan is RON 89, but stations generally serve 90+. But, higher octane ratings are readily available.
    - Japanese gasoline is up to E3.
  19. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    Ethanol's AKI octane is around 100. E85 is 94 to 96. E15 should be around 89.
    1 person likes this.
  20. spwolf

    spwolf Senior Member

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    you can be as foolish as you want, fact is that Mazda2 with 1.3l engine gets 30% less mpg under Japanese cycle than Prius... so lets say it gets 40 MPG under EPA.

    Mazda 3 with 2.0l will only get less than that, especially since things like start/stop that work under japanese cycle do not work with EPA one.
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