Midsize Hybrid Emission Comparison

Discussion in 'Prius, Hybrid, EV and Alt-Fuel News' started by usbseawolf2000, Mar 4, 2011.

  1. usbseawolf2000

    usbseawolf2000 HSD PhD

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    We now have emission data for Hyundai Sonata Hybrid as well as Kia Optima Hybrid. I figured I make a comparison with the other midsize hybrids already in the market.

    Exhaust Emission:
    [​IMG]

    Fuel Evaporative Emission:
    [​IMG]
     

    Attached Files:

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  2. aztoyotascion

    aztoyotascion New Member

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    What does the "hot soak" refer to?
     
  3. SageBrush

    SageBrush Senior Member

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    ^^ the car is parked in high ambient temperatures for the prescribed time. I think 12 or 24 hours, but I am no sure. I am sure you can guess there is also a 'cold soak.'
     
  4. SageBrush

    SageBrush Senior Member

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  5. GrumpyCabbie

    GrumpyCabbie Senior Member

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    How useful is the vapour recovery units? They're not a legal requirement here in Europe (though some cars do have them) and I wonder is the amount recovered significant or minute? How does it compare to exhaust emissions etc?
     
  6. Flying White Dutchman

    Flying White Dutchman Senior Member

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    anyone with a charge compared to the "clean"diesel from vw?
    bleutech stuff
     
  7. usbseawolf2000

    usbseawolf2000 HSD PhD

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    I have data for Jetta TDI but it is a compact. Any suggestion for a VW or Audi mid-size TDI?
     
  8. UsedToLoveCars

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    whelp, I think unburned hydrocarbons are a major smog contributor. They are very strict about vapor recovery systems in California. Part of the emissions test includes pressurizing your fuel system and checking for leaks.

    Even the fuel pumps here have vapor recovery doodads on them to keep vapors from going into the air.

    [​IMG]
     
  9. Flying White Dutchman

    Flying White Dutchman Senior Member

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    the next is the passsat right? and thats bigger then the prius
    and VW is putting the jetta out there to be a prius basher... so come on with those numbers and see.:)
     
  10. usbseawolf2000

    usbseawolf2000 HSD PhD

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    Attached Files:

  11. Rybold

    Rybold globally warmed member

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  12. evpv

    evpv Active Member

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    Thanks, but I was looking for the PZEV version if you have it.
     
  13. usbseawolf2000

    usbseawolf2000 HSD PhD

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    There is no PZEV version as the emission is the same SULEV. SULEV + 10 years / 150k miles emission hardware warranty would make it PZEV.

    Even Prius doesn't have AT-PZEV version of the PDF / certification.
     
  14. evpv

    evpv Active Member

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    Hmmm, I thought there was more difference than that. Thanks for posting the data.

    "In order to qualify as a PZEV, a vehicle must meet the SULEV standard and, in addition, have zero evaporative emissions from its fuel system plus an extended (15-year/150,000-mile) warranty on its emission-control components."
     
  15. evpv

    evpv Active Member

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    Where the heck are they hiding the emission pdf sheets on the arb.ca.gov web site???
     
  16. Flying White Dutchman

    Flying White Dutchman Senior Member

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    the phev got wurs Co2 then the normal pruis?
    what about that
     
  17. SageBrush

    SageBrush Senior Member

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    I took Dutchman's data and normalized the graph to the Accord emissions. The second graph includes SULEV thresholds, but unfortunately things get squished because of the high CO number.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     

    Attached Files:

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  18. usbseawolf2000

    usbseawolf2000 HSD PhD

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    The file name in the link I provided in post #10 said "pz.pdf". The certification inside it said SULEV. They may not have separate PDF with PZEV certification.
     
  19. austingreen

    austingreen Senior Member

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    The testing procedure is antiquated and does not properley account for the way hybrid and plug in hybrid cars are run. I think you meant carbon monoxide in your post. Lev II does not give any credit for electric miles. When the ICE kicks in on the phv, I can only assume it does not do the full warm up as it does on the regular prius. This will give a short term increase in carbon monoxide. This increase is exaggerated by the testing procedure. If you add in the electric miles, the phv should always produce less CO per mile, with the number approaching the normal prius as the mileage gets large. There have been suggestions to fix the problem in Lev III, but I am not sure what if any progress has been made. The numbers on the phv are very low even with the outdated testing procedure.
     
  20. austingreen

    austingreen Senior Member

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    That is exactly it. Toyota got a CARB waiver as have other car companies to have a 10year warranty on the battery. In typical CARB speak, zero in the case of evaporative emissions are not zero, but they are very low.