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Mileage tax on hybrids/ev's?

Discussion in 'Prius, Hybrid, EV and Alt-Fuel News' started by massparanoia, May 18, 2012.

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  1. massparanoia

    massparanoia Active Member

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    Weaning from oil, and fuel taxes | Baker City Herald | Baker County Oregon's News Leader

    "There can be no doubt that Oregon, and every other state, will have to devise a method other than fuel taxes to pay to maintain and build roads and bridges. The taxation system that states, and the federal government, have relied on for decades works so long as the vast majority of vehicles plying our roads burn petroleum products taxed at the pump. Today that still accurately describes the nation’s vehicle fleet. But a decade from now it might not."

    Decreased fuel use, means decreased revenue. What would be a good way to fill the gap?
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  2. JimboPalmer

    JimboPalmer Nadir of Wrongness

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  3. ItsNotAboutTheMoney

    ItsNotAboutTheMoney EditProfOptInfoCustomUser Title

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  4. wjtracy

    wjtracy Senior Member

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    >>Our good Gov. Bob McDonnell of VA proposes an inflation adjuster on the state gaso tax...that's one approach sounds very reasonable actually.

    Hey MassP side issue- Is the grass in your median strips 3-ft tall like ours is? In NOVA about 5 years ago VDOT stopped mowing our grass except about once per year. Not sure if that's a political message or what (NOVA went majority democrat about then).
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  5. ProximalSuns

    ProximalSuns Senior Member

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    And in sales tax, though I'd argue for giving sales tax break for higher mileage vehicles.
  6. massparanoia

    massparanoia Active Member

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    I totally agree with you on the sliding scale gas tax, I have been happy with bob so far...

    On the grass, yeah vdot state wide cut the mowing of the medians. It saved them a ton of money every year, I forget the exact amount. The counties can cut it more if they want.
  7. cwerdna

    cwerdna Senior Member

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    Yeah, I'd been hearing about an mileage tax in Oregon for awhile and how one would discourage people from buying efficient vehicles. I tend to agree.

    They ought to make gas taxes higher there and registration fees much higher for heavy and/or inefficient vehicles.
  8. massparanoia

    massparanoia Active Member

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    Then you will penalize business/fleet owners, unless you exempt commercial vehicles.
  9. JimboPalmer

    JimboPalmer Nadir of Wrongness

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    Excuse me, why shouldn't businesses pay for the damage their heavy vehicles do to roads?

    Or is that subsidy acceptable?

    [ame]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gross_axle_weight_rating[/ame]
  10. cwerdna

    cwerdna Senior Member

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    I wouldn't exempt them but might want to make it not hit legitimate businesses as hard. No, I'm not talking about the people who bought Hummer H2s supposedly w/part time businesses and got tax write offs.

    Businesses should also be encouraged to buy lighter and more efficient vehicles.
  11. massparanoia

    massparanoia Active Member

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    They do, its called International Fuel Tax Agreement, overweight vehicle permits, weight-mile taxes etc.

    You want to tax the hell out of small business go right ahead, the cost of said taxes is just going to be passed to you, the ignorant consumer.

    Maybe you forgot to read this sentance from your useless wikipedia post " For this reason [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Truck"]trucks[/ame] with a high axle weight are heavily taxed in most countries."

    Maybe you should try hauling 80,000 lbs of freight in your prius. Or better yet send a fleet of prius's, equipped with hydraulic booms, out in force the next time a storm knocks out power or phone service. Or, better yet, how about a prius with a 10 car trailer to haul all the new prius's from port to the dealerships.
  12. massparanoia

    massparanoia Active Member

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    Design a "lighter more efficient vehicle" than can haul 80,000 lbs of freight, and people will be beating down your door.
  13. ProximalSuns

    ProximalSuns Senior Member

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    They'll never get an EV tax through in Portlandia.



    Absolutely. We subsidize the highway system a lot as it is and we should make the low mileage, high weight folks pay more so that the cost of transportation gets put in the cost of the goods.

    This will be a big boost for local businesses with lower transport costs and will encourage more local business and less need for transport which is our major oil use.
  14. ProximalSuns

    ProximalSuns Senior Member

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    It's called an electric powered train.
  15. massparanoia

    massparanoia Active Member

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    You contradict yourself, and make absolutely no sense.
  16. The Electric Me

    The Electric Me Go Speed Go!

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    As far as a new way to Tax people?

    Why don't we cross that bridge, when we Electrically reach it?

    In my opinion, with vehicles such as Leaf and Volt, and even PiP and Hybrids, we are still in total numbers dealing with a small minority in relationship to the total vehicles on the road.

    I don't believe their numbers are such that they are causing damage to the infrastructure of roads and bridges unfairly.

    If that day comes, and I hope it does, where alternative vehicles exist in such common number, that transportation is dominated by their existence? Then I think you look at adopting a new funding tax. But I think when you do it? It must be done across the board. If you change to a mileage based tax, it must be a mileage based tax for everyone.

    At the end of that article, it mentions a mileage based Tax, only for Volt and Leaf owners but NOT Prius owners...and I think if you do that? The waters are just too muddied.

    I think the article is hopefully correct, that a day may come when States need to revisit avenues to realign taxes and funding income based on a reduction of income from fuel taxes, due to alternative vehicle ownership and useage. But I do NOT believe we are at that point yet, and I believe we should wait until we are...when we are? Then a new Tax method becomes a fair implementation for everyone. At this point? I would perceive a mileage tax, only on Volt, Leaf or "maybe" hybrid owners as punitive and unfair.

    If you are going to the expense, and sacrifice of being among the early adopters of these vehicles, I think you should be rewarded for using less fuel.

    Until we can afford to make it a mileage based tax for everyone, my belief is it shouldn't be a mileage based tax for anyone.

    It's almost like the medical community coming back and punishing people for quitting smoking because now they don't get the same level of funding from tobacco and cigarette taxes.

    Funding of roads and bridges and highway maintenance is important, but at this point we should reward those striving to do the right thing, not single them out for minority tax.
  17. massparanoia

    massparanoia Active Member

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  18. JimboPalmer

    JimboPalmer Nadir of Wrongness

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    Darn and that would have almost 1/4 filled my last hybrid.
    http://hutnyak.com/Trolley/Photos/Barrick/TruckOnLine.JPG
    (but it never drove on public roads, it was assembled onsite)

    The rest of the post seemed to be in denial about government subsides for truckers on public roads. If it weren't for those subsides, railroads would be way cheaper than semis.
  19. massparanoia

    massparanoia Active Member

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    Rail is cheaper than truck, but it can't provide the same level of service.

    Try getting a license plate for the dresser, then we will talk. The "off highway" diesel it uses isn't taxed the same as "on highway" diesel. I would loved to have seen the cost in overweight vehicle permits, police escorts, weight-mile taxes, that it would have cost to ship that to the mine.
  20. ProximalSuns

    ProximalSuns Senior Member

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    $54B per year in highway funds from Federal budget alone vs. $3B for rail. State budgets mirror that in weighted heavily to subsidizing highway traffic. Total DOT budget is $74B.

    Auto companies lobbied heavily in the 50's to kill trolley and bus service and to get massive subsidies for highways. That skew continues to day.
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